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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 17, 2015 9:44:13 GMT
Ok - the 66 to 98 is easy, the project is far enough along by 61 to 68 that it's just a wait and see. The lab team works on the other strains, and Norman gave instructions around her to move them to Europe when that's done. He forgets about it, and gets an update around 98 that the move is underway or has been completed. He may even disband the original team, and have someone watching their details on a monitor "if they don't show destablization signs in a month, move them to europe" (never seeing in the tanks) ...or move all work to another team in another area for secrecy. I don't look at the twins as a detail - more as a Phase 2. It's plausible that Warren has DNA from before Norman was infected, depending on when the story starts and is looking for a radical cure (explaining why they don't sense something wrong with his blood) and post 122 Norman changes the focus of the project to the immortality angle and wanting a clone with Goblin Blood. He's latching onto the twins because 1) he may die before a better option is available and 2) Harry is a screw up. Everything we know about them, including Norman's interest, may be false. They could have been in a storage locker for years, with implanted memories and escaped....only to be recaptured. For cloning - Phase 0 is in test tubes and such, Phase 1 is the brainless clone, Phase 2 is the hybrids and Phase 3 would be the pure line clones - culminating in a Norman clone. I think the more perfect the clone - the harder and longer it is to achieve success - with Norman's clone being the hardest of all. The thefts were in 97 - Goblin was hijacking and ripping off anything not nailed down, while Peter was laying low. Need to rethink some of this - feel free to give it a go Think the planning phase where they are blueprinting everything and figuring out what technology they are going to need is important... a lot of the tech that pops up later in the series can be traced to this project - which gives it an anchor. By the Aunt May story - they have the stasis chamber, are very far along in genetics, and the have the ability to transfer memories. They could have built on Stromm's tech that transferred his mind to machinery - except they are adapting it to organically. The memories part is perfected by the ock story...but it should be the same tech. It could have gotten out many, many ways (spies at oscorp, norman infiltrated every importat tech center and is pulling information back to OsCOrp, Norman stealing from Ock, etc) - but that's not really important here. For the clone Sage - they have single strain clones that are imperfect - except Gwen Clones. and they are studying her some place to figure out why -the site may not be abandoned when they discover it. They also can't move memories perfectly to these bodies yet. The brain control machine helps enlist people, keep things secret, is an early memory manipulator, etc. For all we know, once Warren got to a point where single strain clones were feasible - he was zapped for asking to many questions and having morals, replaced with several Warren clones working 24/7 that could be made completely loyal to Osborn. He may have been zapped and told to go back to his classroom, only to return to the fold if he's contacted with a trigger phrase...or Silver Age Warren is intact and floating in a tank right along side Gwen after the project reached the cool down phase - screwed by his partnership with Norman. ( if this is the case, there should be 3 or 4 tanks, one for Aunt May, another for someone they planned to grab or grabbed and failed to keep ... If they take requests, Would also be awesome if they still had the original hobgoblin , because the rest sucked so bad lol Edit: If they are wrapping up Phase 2 by 61 and jumping into Phase 3, they could clone Warren and zap the clone, putting the real Warren in a tank. This would tease out as proof that zapping a clone doesn't work well - as he goes nuts - eventually jumping off a roof (and popping up again and again). They could pull him out and put him back in if they get stuck. Poor Joyce keeps getting zapped and dies. This ends the project by 66 - with only a long cool down / monitoring period remaining. Later, they could find proof that a healthy, untainted Norman clone (disintegrates after death) was created and it's either in storage until the memory transfer process was perfected or it was destroyed post 122 on Norman's orders when he changed the scope and took over Norman's mind. It's a stretch, but bringing back more silver age characters would help the book, and I don't think many would complain. The 3rd tank could have May's chart, meaning this is where she was at one point, and the 4th could be being prepped in anticipation of Mary Jane or Harry, with notes that his drug use disqualifies him for the process. The memory team, (now located in Europe?), could be working on the clones. Again, I think they'd be about Gwen's age coming out of the tank - a result of the splicing - and age up normally to when we meet them. I think I understand what needs to happen with project and twins between 61 and 98, what about 99 - 121 (aside from Harry getting zapped)? The clones are in Europe? Long story short - Osborn sought ( reason for project) using his company, resources and advanced theoretical technologies. The plan was to create and refine clones, then transfer his conscience at that point to the new, "perfect" vessel. Significant progress was made at a high moral cost - but ultimately the Goblin took over his personality and the project was cancelled or changed direction around 122. From these efforts - the cloning process, stasis chambers and memory transfer processes encountered later were initially designed; later improved by others. Through significant later discoveries, Gwen Stacy and Professor Warren are found alive, after being kidnapped and held in stasis to advance the project; and Gwen's kids are discovered to be highly evolved clones - their origins covered through a false memory imprinted on MJ during her pregnancy. I must admit, I'm simply getting lost in the details. Can you provide, some sort of barebones start-to-finish plot, like the one I proposed? That would help me decide if there's something wrong, where and why. As it is, I keep seeing things change, without a clear picture of what's going on.
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Post by vixx on Jun 17, 2015 15:53:21 GMT
Draft outline:
Sometime after the accident in his lab, Norman and Warren start a cloning program - using Oscorp resources. Warren, a teacher and project lead, is looking to improve the world. Norman, is looking for ___ (cure his insanity, make money, clone his dead wife, clone Norman, etc.) Intital planning, based on theory, determines clones will have two major components - the bodies (hardware) and memories/personality (software) The exploratory testing (using Osborn's (clean or infected) DNA, Warren's & Joyce) does not go well - samples do not form and/or decay rapidly. They set test subject parameters, and Warren collects DNA samples from several students as part of an extra credit assignment. Gwen Stacy, a bright student that helps run the lab, submits a profile. Peter Parker does not. A new round of testing fails - except for one sample - Gwens. Warren has a theory for this. Warren shares the results with Norman, and they detail out the technologies and processes the program will be run under. Norman secretly researches Gwen to learn all about her. He loathes a non pure line, but is willing to make a concession. They will need: The ability to create bodies, the ability to transfer consciousness to these bodies, and a way to store them long term w/ minimal decay. One team will focus on the bodies - lead by Warren and an assistant. Another will focus on the mental side - and be lead by Winkler. Winkler is aware of Stromm's research for transferring his consciousness to a computer, and will use that as a base for his version with organics and full personality. Norman has also tasked him with creation of a memory modification device as part of the process. Based on the initial findings - there will be three phases: 1) successfully grow a clone from the successful sample 2) create a single strain clone from the unsuccessful sample and 3) create a hybrid strain of Gwen DNA, cultured from the sample, and a DNA from Norman, who is proving too volatile to clone as a single line at this time. Stage 4 will be a pure Norman clone - detailed only after the first 3 are successful, if limitations can be overcome. Phase one progresses quickly through animal testing, and after repeated attempts - culminates in a perfect replica body being created. It shows no signs of the disintegration encountered on the others - and remains to be studied. Phase 2 is running concurrently, and significant progress has been made. Phase 3 is proving more difficult, as Osborn's DNA is different. Discussions with Norman have provided some answers, but not to Warren's satisfaction and they have argued over how much "external" DNA will be required to create stable hybrids. The mind team has progressed quickly - building a working prototype of the memory control device which will transfer consciousness from a computer to the clone. It can work independently of an organic source. It's slow, difficult work. An incident happens with Winkler, and he is killed, the team relocated. Around this time a pair of 50/50 hybrid clones are completed, and monitored. Instructions are given by Norman to send them to Europe to the new mental team.. The first near perfect Phase 2 straight line clone (Warren) is finishing up. The decay process much improved. (Happening after death) Joyce has been acting funny after a meeting with Norman - she seems tired and focused only on work. (between 61 and 66) A meeting with Norman goes very badly: They argue bitterly over Winkler's conclusions and the mental limitations and moral impact Warren grills Norman on his blood. Warren is confident memory can be recovered through a different process if other "Norman" requirements are dropped. Warren further hypothesized that the Gwen sample could be the blueprint to overcoming this deficiency - but the amount of time, resources and access to large amounts of DNA would make pursuing it immoral and prohibitive. Norman subdues (like a tazer? they'd have to have stuff around the lab to contain a clone that flipped out) Warren and puts him into one of the stasis chambers - to valuable to lose, to dangerous to roam free, to moral to continue. He zaps the Warren clone, which has had an personality profile installed by Winkler's team. It's an early trial and this is the best non Gwen single line ever created. They are running other tests on the Gwen clone, focused on disintegration and Osborn's sample limitations. (by 66) Citing the hardware projects as successful - he disbands the team, except Joyce, who will wrap up the hybrids and send them to Europe. The Warren clone is sent back to the university - eventually proving Winkler and Warren's theory - writing a person's consciousness to a clone will prove unstable, similar to the physical disintegration. The mind wipe kicked it into overdrive. Joyce creates a couple of Warren clones, from Warren's notes and template (having about 3 means things don't grind to a halt when one dies and the new one has to be grown...and there are earlier iterations still around that eventually decay. Having a clone staff takes the project off the books and "creates" the best possible workers) It is loaded with his consciousness from the existing template, is a bit quirky and destabilizes slower, overtime. The lab systems automatically monitor, and replace him as needed - with updates gained from the data it reads. (they wouldn't build clones by hand after a certain point, but automate it...and when the site is abandoned - it remains operational....replacing clones with improved models and uploading data other teams could use.) Joyce eventually dies from mind wipe complications. Harry's drug use is discovered (further testing disqualifies him as a viable candidate for any of this research - a combination of genetic predispositions, and drug use). Norman is disgusted about the drugs, writing Harry off as weak minded and an unworthy heir. He focuses more attention on the twins - both as heirs and speed up his own clone. (100's - much later) A Norman clone, blank, is underway using pre-serum Norman DNA instead of so much Gwen DNA. Gwen DNA is reduced to non visible traits that prevents deterioration only. It's 99% pure. Upon completion it will be monitored and stored until the memory kinks are worked out. It's basically a perfect copy.(This step is optional) Norman mind wipes Harry, similar to Joyce. He is programed him with massive amounts of "improvements" and instructions Harry responds to the reprogramming poorly, most likely a combination of being completely overloaded by the massive amount of data, drugs weakening his system, and just being genetically predisposed to not respond well to this kind of process. a drug relapse story is given. Norman cracks and 121 progresses. During this time, Norman grabs Gwen, drops her at the lab, dressing up the blank clone as her replacement. She is put in stasis. The Warren clones help. He picks a fight with Spiderman, and she is "killed" Spiderman tracks Norman down and he dies unexpectedly. He flees to Europe, upon recovery - free to finish the Twins, and process the mental limitations of the clones. The NY lab is still operational, due to the auto replicating Warren clones.
Later - The twins escape (or are turned loose) - engaging Spiderman and rejecting parts of their programming. They are recaptured after a time for study. MJ was given plausible cover story for this event during her pregnancy, and this is activated when the letter is received. Advanced clone Warren picks up cloning on his own, despite being zapped, and rapidly starts to mentally disintegrate, as hypothesized. The mind accelerating the mental decay. He fixates on Gwen. Aunt May is kidnapped and held in stasis, eventually being released. Her memories are successfully transferred to an actress with no issue. The memory techniques are leaked outside the project - ultimately perfected by Doc Ock. (aware of what happened to Aunt May?)
Much later - The lair is discovered - with tanks Warren and Gwen. 2 empty tanks the Twins were in are there, one had May in it at some point. The fourth may have been prepped for MJ at some point or remains empty.
Other - Transferring consciousness from Human to Clone, and disintegration after death (aside from Warren's early anomaly and Gwen) remain the only hurdles to project completion. If the Norman clone exists, it's in storage or near completion If this isn't abandoned - He could have been working on a Harry clone - overcoming the genetic limitations and learning how to layer memories into the body so it doesn't go nuts and accepts it's programming. They'd still be learning how to do all this, and doubtful Norman would sacrifice his own clone.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 17, 2015 17:02:54 GMT
Draft outline: Sometime after the accident in his lab, Norman and Warren start a cloning program - using Oscorp resources. Warren, a teacher and project lead, is looking to improve the world. Norman, is looking for ___ (cure his insanity, make money, clone his dead wife, clone Norman, etc.) Intital planning, based on theory, determines clones will have two major components - the bodies (hardware) and memories/personality (software) Appreciated. I'm going to stop the quoting, at the first point where I'd like to make some "arrangements". Once where on the same page, up to that point, I'll expand the quote in future posts. The fourth line prompts the question, whose initial theoretical planning, determines that there will be two components, to clone research? Osborn's or Warren's? The latter was a biology expert, so I guess his only interest would be the "hardware" component. I'm also guessing it would be Osborn, the one interested in the "software" part. A corollary to this point, would be whether or not, Osborn would share the bigger picture of the project, with Warren.
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Post by vixx on Jun 17, 2015 17:33:24 GMT
Draft outline: Sometime after the accident in his lab, Norman and Warren start a cloning program - using Oscorp resources. Warren, a teacher and project lead, is looking to improve the world. Norman, is looking for ___ (cure his insanity, make money, clone his dead wife, clone Norman, etc.) Intital planning, based on theory, determines clones will have two major components - the bodies (hardware) and memories/personality (software) Appreciated. I'm going to stop the quoting, at the first point where I'd like to make some "arrangements". Once where on the same page, up to that point, I'll expand the quote in future posts. The fourth line prompts the question, whose initial theoretical planning, determines that there will be two components, to clone research? Osborn's or Warren's? The latter was a biology expert, so I guess his only interest would be the "hardware" component. I'm also guessing it would be Osborn, the one interested in the "software" part. A corollary to this point, would be whether or not, Osborn would share the bigger picture of the project, with Warren. These are generally a group of the top people - you set out what's most important, then break the work into groups - making sure each side understands what's needed for the others to be successful. It's a real world process... Joyce could be the manager that keeps both specialized teams talking and report up to Osborn the day to day progress. She'd have the background of both areas, but at no where NEAR the level of detail of either...so she could follow their work, even contribute...but she's not going to create detailed solutions. Warren would push for perfect biology, Winkler stressing the mental side. Warren would be more moral than either Osborn or Winkler (who'd essentially roll their eyes mentally when he starts preaching) Both would theorize the limitations and Norman would ultimatley set the requirements for success...and he'd lean towards the mental, which would create friction between him and Warren. Norman's rational would be - we'll if I can get 10 years out of a body, and replace it that's cool...but I better have a damn good mental process. He'd also be aware of Stromm's work, and know how good it was - but not want to wind up a highly refined AI "living" in a bot. He'd add the manipulation factor with Warren out of the room - as a way to "clean up" any bugs that might exist post transfer and fill in any gaps. He'd get along better with Winkler. With Winkler's betrayal, Osborn would be forced to work more with Warren... and it would be a tough road. Warren isn't as interested in the mental side and the preachy part would grate on Osborn.... and Warren has the background to call bullshit on Norman's odd samples...which would spook Osborn, but he knows Warren is unreplaceable ... until he's not. The inital planning gets them to the test tube phase through proof of concept (they clone an eyeball or something), which based on data - allows them to plan scaling it up to something larger - designing the equipment, getting around obstacles, etc. At this phase, Winkler has a much easier road - as Stromm has really gotten the removal of intellegance to a computer part sorted out. His focus in taking it from a machine and being able to write it into something organic in a "real" way. It would start with adding a false memory "you skipped breakfast today" or manipulating a simple memory "you like Jennifer's ugly blouse". He'd need the manipulation machine to do that. Scale for him would be using that to link a full profile from the computer to a map of whatever Warren creates - within the boundries of the two share, theorize and establish as their work progresses. Norman would be the taskmaster - setting impossibly high standards both much reach or agreeing to a compromise. examples would be the pure line, or accepting "Norman, we can't add memories before age 5." It's Norman's job to understand the difference between his team settling for good enough, and really running into an unmovable obstacle - like being unable to move forward on a Norman clone without splicing in Gwen traits. It would KILL him to make that concession, but if he refuses - there is no project.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 17, 2015 17:52:37 GMT
These are generally a group of the top people - you set out what's most important, then break the work into groups - making sure each side understands what's needed for the others to be successful. It's a real world process... Joyce could be the manager that keeps both specialized teams talking and report up to Osborn the day to day progress. She'd have the background of both areas, but at no where NEAR the level of detail of either...so she could follow their work, even contribute...but she's not going to create detailed solutions. So, we have Warren's team, Winkler's team and a coordinator, tentatively called Joyce. That would be the way go, in real life, but let's remember that Norman wasn't all quite there, when it came to logic. Without a clear need, for the teams to cooperate, I don't see why he'd risk Warren's collaboration, by revealing the full scope of the project. The cloning team, would have the mandate of creating an exact replica of a human body. The brainwasher team, would have to be able to program a human's mind. If both teams achieve their respective goals, there should be no problem. If there's a problem, it can always we traced back to a defect on the clone's part (human testing would need to be passed, before trying a clone).
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Post by vixx on Jun 17, 2015 18:18:52 GMT
These are generally a group of the top people - you set out what's most important, then break the work into groups - making sure each side understands what's needed for the others to be successful. It's a real world process... Joyce could be the manager that keeps both specialized teams talking and report up to Osborn the day to day progress. She'd have the background of both areas, but at no where NEAR the level of detail of either...so she could follow their work, even contribute...but she's not going to create detailed solutions. So, we have Warren's team, Winkler's team and a coordinator, tentatively called Joyce. That would be the way go, in real life, but let's remember that Norman wasn't all quite there, when it came to logic. Without a clear need, for the teams to cooperate, I don't see why he'd risk Warren's collaboration, by revealing the full scope of the project. The cloning team, would have the mandate of creating an exact replica of a human body. The brainwasher team, would have to be able to program a human's mind. If both teams achieve their respective goals, there should be no problem. If there's a problem, it can always we traced back to a defect on the clone's part (human testing would need to be passed, before trying a clone). Exactly - but Norman wouldn't be an everyday kind of guy once planning is done. The teams would know what to do. Norman would check in, work with the three as needed and be free to decline in peace. Not seeing him everyday helps the others not notice his decline quickly. He'd just come accross as an ass...and his reputation would be known before hand. They'd have to work with each other at a high level to get any amount of success , but remain in competition.... think they'd rather anything happen before wanting to talk with him before a check in date. He could define success as being able to clone himself or anyone like him (i.e. rich, eccentric assholes) Alternativley, he may have them working in secret to transfer his conciousness to a new replica body becasue he's not well (ie: ALS) - promising humanity would benefit and they'd all be rich off the patents. He could use his dead wife as a cover story. If he taps into their motivations and stays at a distance, they won't care about HIS motivation. Warren may not even know the DNA to clone is from Osborn himself.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 17, 2015 18:42:33 GMT
So, we have Warren's team, Winkler's team and a coordinator, tentatively called Joyce. That would be the way go, in real life, but let's remember that Norman wasn't all quite there, when it came to logic. Without a clear need, for the teams to cooperate, I don't see why he'd risk Warren's collaboration, by revealing the full scope of the project. The cloning team, would have the mandate of creating an exact replica of a human body. The brainwasher team, would have to be able to program a human's mind. If both teams achieve their respective goals, there should be no problem. If there's a problem, it can always we traced back to a defect on the clone's part (human testing would need to be passed, before trying a clone). Exactly - but Norman wouldn't be an everyday kind of guy once planning is done. The teams would know what to do. Norman would check in, work with the three as needed and be free to decline in peace. Not seeing him everyday helps the others not notice his decline quickly. He'd just come accross as an ass...and his reputation would be known before hand. They'd have to work with each other at a high level to get any amount of success , but remain in competition.... think they'd rather anything happen before wanting to talk with him before a check in date. He could define success as being able to clone himself or anyone like him (i.e. rich, eccentric assholes) Alternativley, he may have them working in secret to transfer his conciousness to a new replica body becasue he's not well (ie: ALS) - promising humanity would benefit and they'd all be rich off the patents. He could use his dead wife as a cover story. If he taps into their motivations and stays at a distance, they won't care about HIS motivation. Warren may not even know the DNA to clone is from Osborn himself. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but why would it be done this way? What's the point in hiring someone else, to coordinate projects, which are only going to interact, once they've both reached their goals? Furthermore, the involved teams are from non-overlapping, scientific disciplines. Osborn's spending more money and assuming more risks… for nothing.
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Post by vixx on Jun 17, 2015 19:04:24 GMT
Exactly - but Norman wouldn't be an everyday kind of guy once planning is done. The teams would know what to do. Norman would check in, work with the three as needed and be free to decline in peace. Not seeing him everyday helps the others not notice his decline quickly. He'd just come accross as an ass...and his reputation would be known before hand. They'd have to work with each other at a high level to get any amount of success , but remain in competition.... think they'd rather anything happen before wanting to talk with him before a check in date. He could define success as being able to clone himself or anyone like him (i.e. rich, eccentric assholes) Alternativley, he may have them working in secret to transfer his conciousness to a new replica body becasue he's not well (ie: ALS) - promising humanity would benefit and they'd all be rich off the patents. He could use his dead wife as a cover story. If he taps into their motivations and stays at a distance, they won't care about HIS motivation. Warren may not even know the DNA to clone is from Osborn himself. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but why would it be done this way? What's the point in hiring someone else, to coordinate projects, which are only going to interact, once they've both reached their goals? Furthermore, the involved teams are from non-overlapping, scientific disciplines. Osborn's spending more money and assuming more risks… for nothing. Because they aren't fully independent - there is an integration phase and both sides are breaking new ground...and they are running concurrently. If it was more of a Waterfall style - Winkler wouldn't start until the first straight line clone was developed...he'd have one sitting in his lab and just read the notes...and all the innovation to make it world would be on Winkler. Without it - Winkler would look at them and say "I can't write to a clone without a spec to write to and have any measure of success" The back and forth would be Can you write to a human and adapt it? Sure - but I need to plan for the differences, and I'll have my own requirements based around what's learned by successfully writing memory. Ok get started on the big stuff and keep each other informed. Norman would stay out of the weeds and run his company / criminal enterprise ... stepping in on a schedule or if something blows up. Joyce is cheap in the big picture, and keeps the politics minimal - she also handles coordination with any other teams these two rely on and generates the reports that roll to Norman. Most geniuses aren't good at this type of stuff or don't want to be in meetings all day. More risk /money if they don't record notes, misunderstand each other, blame each other, miss deadlines, etc
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 17, 2015 20:08:59 GMT
Because they aren't fully independent - there is an integration phase and both sides are breaking new ground...and they are running concurrently. If it was more of a Waterfall style - Winkler wouldn't start until the first straight line clone was developed...he'd have one sitting in his lab and just read the notes...and all the innovation to make it world would be on Winkler. Without it - Winkler would look at them and say "I can't write to a clone without a spec to write to and have any measure of success" The back and forth would be Can you write to a human and adapt it? Sure - but I need to plan for the differences, and I'll have my own requirements based around what's learned by successfully writing memory. Ok get started on the big stuff and keep each other informed. Norman would stay out of the weeds and run his company / criminal enterprise ... stepping in on a schedule or if something blows up. Joyce is cheap in the big picture, and keeps the politics minimal - she also handles coordination with any other teams these two rely on and generates the reports that roll to Norman. Most geniuses aren't good at this type of stuff or don't want to be in meetings all day. More risk /money if they don't record notes, misunderstand each other, blame each other, miss deadlines, etc Ok, so the brainwasher team would need a clone, at some point in their research, to test a complete memory write. Surely, at the onset of their project, this wouldn't be needed. As we can see in the comics, Winkler was programming humans, so up to ASM #61, they appear to be independent. In any case, let's assume Osborn set up operations as you say, and we'll see if this runs into problems, further down the road.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 17, 2015 20:12:14 GMT
Draft outline: Sometime after the accident in his lab, Norman and Warren start a cloning program - using Oscorp resources. Warren, a teacher and project lead, is looking to improve the world. Norman, is looking for ___ (cure his insanity, make money, clone his dead wife, clone Norman, etc.) Intital planning, based on theory, determines clones will have two major components - the bodies (hardware) and memories/personality (software) The exploratory testing (using Osborn's (clean or infected) DNA, Warren's & Joyce) does not go well - samples do not form and/or decay rapidly. They set test subject parameters, and Warren collects DNA samples from several students as part of an extra credit assignment. Would these samples, be the ones mentioned in ASM #148?
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Post by vixx on Jun 17, 2015 20:57:29 GMT
Because they aren't fully independent - there is an integration phase and both sides are breaking new ground...and they are running concurrently. If it was more of a Waterfall style - Winkler wouldn't start until the first straight line clone was developed...he'd have one sitting in his lab and just read the notes...and all the innovation to make it world would be on Winkler. Without it - Winkler would look at them and say "I can't write to a clone without a spec to write to and have any measure of success" The back and forth would be Can you write to a human and adapt it? Sure - but I need to plan for the differences, and I'll have my own requirements based around what's learned by successfully writing memory. Ok get started on the big stuff and keep each other informed. Norman would stay out of the weeds and run his company / criminal enterprise ... stepping in on a schedule or if something blows up. Joyce is cheap in the big picture, and keeps the politics minimal - she also handles coordination with any other teams these two rely on and generates the reports that roll to Norman. Most geniuses aren't good at this type of stuff or don't want to be in meetings all day. More risk /money if they don't record notes, misunderstand each other, blame each other, miss deadlines, etc Ok, so the brainwasher team would need a clone, at some point in their research, to test a complete memory write. Surely, at the onset of their project, this wouldn't be needed. As we can see in the comics, Winkler was programming humans, so up to ASM #61, they appear to be independent. In any case, let's assume Osborn set up operations as you say, and we'll see if this runs into problems, further down the road. no - need to exclude peter, at this stage - if Peter was in there, he and Norman would throw off the sampling. This would be a compromise with Norman - get a random class sampling from an extra credit assignment - something like "determine your blood type". Norman would want the assignment to be really hard so only the best students would complete it ... Pete would be too busy or shy away from anything to do with blood. One of those samples is Gwen ... the others are basically no names that up the sample population and have similar issues as the initial 3.
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Post by vixx on Jun 17, 2015 21:06:23 GMT
Draft outline: Sometime after the accident in his lab, Norman and Warren start a cloning program - using Oscorp resources. Warren, a teacher and project lead, is looking to improve the world. Norman, is looking for ___ (cure his insanity, make money, clone his dead wife, clone Norman, etc.) Intital planning, based on theory, determines clones will have two major components - the bodies (hardware) and memories/personality (software) The exploratory testing (using Osborn's (clean or infected) DNA, Warren's & Joyce) does not go well - samples do not form and/or decay rapidly. They set test subject parameters, and Warren collects DNA samples from several students as part of an extra credit assignment. Would these samples, be the ones mentioned in ASM #148? They would start together in planning - the mind team would be working on adapting Stromm's work and building the box, experimenting on humans until Warren's team could give him a crude clone prototype to work with. I think the brain team starts out ahead, but never quite figures out how to map to clones perfectly. There has to be a flaw that prevents them from making an army of super normans - but both teams progress can be seen throughout the run of the book. The twins are only half clone, so they would have some level of success. down the line for readiness testing, and they do a bit of this with Warren. It would be in a common area - because both sides would need tests run. If it passes and stays together for a short time, they'd up the testing to walking around the lab and doing regular human stuff. You figure by the time they get to the perfect lookng Warren clone, they've done this dozens of times and have a strong testing script. They'd go from having a zombie thing walking around that falls down stairs and walks into walls to a fully functional - but quirky, Warren that spontaniously melts occasionally. The new team memory team that's formed after Winkler's death would have a room with dozen's of clones running all sorts of testing. Might even just be parts of clones - can they see, is the tempature right, can they poop, can they reproduce ... bascially anything you can think of. the QA teams would handle a lot of this and update the results logs. Warren and Winkler (the product guys) would get feedback and incorporate findings into their next iterations.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 17, 2015 22:19:48 GMT
Ok, so the brainwasher team would need a clone, at some point in their research, to test a complete memory write. Surely, at the onset of their project, this wouldn't be needed. As we can see in the comics, Winkler was programming humans, so up to ASM #61, they appear to be independent. In any case, let's assume Osborn set up operations as you say, and we'll see if this runs into problems, further down the road. no - need to exclude peter, at this stage - if Peter was in there, he and Norman would throw off the sampling. This would be a compromise with Norman - get a random class sampling from an extra credit assignment - something like "determine your blood type". Norman would want the assignment to be really hard so only the best students would complete it ... Pete would be too busy or shy away from anything to do with blood. One of those samples is Gwen ... the others are basically no names that up the sample population and have similar issues as the initial 3. I guess you were actually answering, my question from the other post. Peter wouldn't be trowing off sampling, anymore than Osborn himself, and since you want Warren to focus on Gwen, what's the downside? Yes, Peter was reluctant to let people do tests on him, but he allowed Serba to take his samples, after all. Going with the events in ASM #148, confers the story better integration with the old material.
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Post by vixx on Jun 18, 2015 0:41:21 GMT
The problem is those samples had memories right up until she died - this is 100 issues before that...the memory angle is beyond stupid..but it's canon - plus, He'd have to pocket the slides from this lab to have them later in 148.
At this stage, they are at ground level... to much weirdness would burn a lot of time off the clock. 2 of 6 is 33% of your group...you'd chuck them out as tainted and start over...and figure out Peter is odd.
in 148, he's just going down a familiar path when he assigns a class project.. swab your cheek and grow it in a Petri dish.
I'm cool with either way - but I don't want to open the door to "couldn't there be a set of twins someplace else made of Peter's sample?"
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 18, 2015 6:41:11 GMT
Is it canon? The Jackal said:It's clear what Conway meant, but maybe we can fix that, by saying that it was buried, because he didn't know how to properly use the brainwashing machine, and needed hypnosis as an added step, in the process.
The "couldn't there be a set of twins someplace else made of Peter's sample?" is a good point. It'll be better, if Peter sits this one out.
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