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Post by dav on Jun 4, 2014 18:28:32 GMT
I believe that Sins Past should just disappear from continuity. I don't care how they do it. I just want it gone! And Marvel to figure out a clever way to bring her back. (No clones!) Good to see you Kurt! Getting rid of Sins Past is definitely on the agenda of this thread! It's just a matter of how to go about doing it. As we've been talking about, Sins Past could be made to be some master plan to screw with Peter's mind by Norman, but there are a lot of loose ends to be tied up in order to make that idea work.
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Post by dav on Jun 4, 2014 18:41:41 GMT
I think the best revelation would be to show that the real Gwen has been unconscious in the possession of Miles Warren to serve as the base for the clones the makes.
This idea has definite possibilities. It's been a while, perhaps you can refresh my memory as to how much of a connection Miles Warren had to Norman Osborn. There might be a way to retcon it so that Miles had a connection with Norman for quite a while BEFORE #121 and in some master plan using clones and such, Sins Past could have been with a clone and NOT Gwen. Maybe there was a switch while she was in England or something (This could also be used to explain why she acted so wimpy after she came back from England! )
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Post by spiderman62 on Jun 4, 2014 18:44:11 GMT
As far Aunt May is concerned Ozy, the last time I had fun reading her character was when she knew that Peter was Spider-Man.
And as for continuity from the 90s well that was when I started reading comics so to me that was the norm lol. Though in the 90s I only read Spider-Man as my parents couldn't afford to get me more than one title and made me choose between Spidey and X-Men or Batman.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 4, 2014 18:52:46 GMT
This idea has definite possibilities. It's been a while, perhaps you can refresh my memory as to how much of a connection Miles Warren had to Norman Osborn. There might be a way to retcon it so that Miles had a connection with Norman for quite a while BEFORE #121 and in some master plan using clones and such, Sins Past could have been with a clone and NOT Gwen. Maybe there was a switch while she was in England or something (This could also be used to explain why she acted so wimpy after she came back from England! ) It was stablished, in ASM #149, that Miles started his mental decline, which led to him becoming the Jackal, AFTER Gwen's death in #121. As for Gwen acting "wimpy", what did you expect? Conway was writing her!
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Post by dav on Jun 4, 2014 18:54:49 GMT
IMO, the MU is past redemption, best thing to do is go to the oldest restoration point, without a complete reboot. I liked the MU, back in the 60's and 70's and a good deal of the 80's. There was a real sense of continuity then. If you brought Gwen back, to the present day, most likely her character would be "updated" to better fit with the times. I'm remiss about what that would implicate.
It might not be too bad. If you look at House of M, the writers kept her character pretty much the same but added a toughness that was directed toward Norman Osborn. THAT would be poetic justice to have her like that! After all the misery Norman has caused Peter, to have her come back and make it her objective to go after Norman!
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Post by dav on Jun 4, 2014 18:59:25 GMT
I take it you don't see a problem either, about her functioning properly in the current MU? And no, no clones, of course. I'm amazed at people who say that bringing her back was already done and failed, referring to the original Clone Saga. Thanks again for yet another gift, Gerry!
Exactly! I suspect that there was a lot more backlash about killing Gwen than we have been led to believe by Marvel. My guess is that the original clone saga was written to appease the Gwen fans. It certainly didn't work on me!!
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 4, 2014 18:59:44 GMT
As far Aunt May is concerned Ozy, the last time I had fun reading her character was when she knew that Peter was Spider-Man. And as for continuity from the 90s well that was when I started reading comics so to me that was the norm lol. Though in the 90s I only read Spider-Man as my parents couldn't afford to get me more than one title and made me choose between Spidey and X-Men or Batman. Actually, that was the last AND the fist time I enjoyed that character, mainly because JMS is a good writer. But also because he deviated form the original template. You know, at the beginning of the 80's, I too was made to choose between The Hulk and Spider-Man, for monetary reasons. Sorry green guy.
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Post by spiderman62 on Jun 4, 2014 19:02:20 GMT
Yeah I didn't get to read anything other than Spider-Man till 2002 when I was able to get my own comics.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 4, 2014 19:06:21 GMT
It might not be too bad. If you look at House of M, the writers kept her character pretty much the same but added a toughness that was directed toward Norman Osborn. THAT would be poetic justice to have her like that! After all the misery Norman has caused Peter, to have her come back and make it her objective to go after Norman! I took that sequence more as an inside joke, directed at the events that transpired in Sins Past "Do you know what I look for in a man? Someone whose idea of cologne isn't Ben-Gay" And although I like to see her in any shape or form, this wasn't quite the real deal.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 4, 2014 19:10:27 GMT
Exactly! I suspect that there was a lot more backlash about killing Gwen than we have been led to believe by Marvel. My guess is that the original clone saga was written to appease the Gwen fans. It certainly didn't work on me!! If it were only to appease… I'm quite certain it was Conway's way of saying, "Look, there she is, but Peter has already moved on and chosen MJ over her. Learn from him and quit bitching!"
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Post by dav on Jun 4, 2014 19:12:22 GMT
I'm not expecting a reboot, either. As long as the titles maintain a certain level of sales, everything will continue the same. But I'm not the only one, or even the first, to notice that, in the 90's, continuity in the MU became a real problem. Not only did the aging of character slowed down tremendously, like it had been doing since 1968, but it actually stopped and, in some cases, we could start seeing signs of de-aging. Nowadays, I look at Aunt May and I just can't reconcile the character, with the one I grew up with. She's not the only one, but she represents the most clear case.
Despite the cynicism of modern readers I will give them credit for being more sophisticated. For this reason, Marvel doesn't have to de-age Peter anymore. The audience can handle him not being the naïve college student he was.
As for Aunt May, her character is nothing like the frail, sickly, doting woman she was in the 60's. IMHO I really think it's time to do away with her. She served her purpose, but now she really has worn out her usefulness in the franchise. It's amazing how some people have a problem with bringing back Gwen, but don't have a problem with May STILL being around!
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Post by dav on Jun 4, 2014 19:16:32 GMT
Exactly! I suspect that there was a lot more backlash about killing Gwen than we have been led to believe by Marvel. My guess is that the original clone saga was written to appease the Gwen fans. It certainly didn't work on me!! If it were only to appease… I'm quite certain it was Conway's way of saying, "Look, there she is, but Peter has already moved on and chosen MJ over her. Learn from him and quit bitching!"
LOL You're probably right!!
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 4, 2014 19:20:33 GMT
As for Aunt May, her character is nothing like the frail, sickly, doting woman she was in the 60's. IMHO I really think it's time to do away with her. She served her purpose, but now she really has worn out her usefulness in the franchise. It's amazing how some people have a problem with bringing back Gwen, but don't have a problem with May STILL being around! I almost wanted to rip my eyes out when I saw her in a mini-skirt! And yes, there're many things Spidey fans amaze me with, and they usually come from the same type of fans, coincidence?
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Post by spiderman62 on Jun 4, 2014 19:23:54 GMT
I'm not expecting a reboot, either. As long as the titles maintain a certain level of sales, everything will continue the same. But I'm not the only one, or even the first, to notice that, in the 90's, continuity in the MU became a real problem. Not only did the aging of character slowed down tremendously, like it had been doing since 1968, but it actually stopped and, in some cases, we could start seeing signs of de-aging. Nowadays, I look at Aunt May and I just can't reconcile the character, with the one I grew up with. She's not the only one, but she represents the most clear case.
Despite the cynicism of modern readers I will give them credit for being more sophisticated. For this reason, Marvel doesn't have to de-age Peter anymore. The audience can handle him not being the naïve college student he was.
As for Aunt May, her character is nothing like the frail, sickly, doting woman she was in the 60's. IMHO I really think it's time to do away with her. She served her purpose, but now she really has worn out her usefulness in the franchise. It's amazing how some people have a problem with bringing back Gwen, but don't have a problem with May STILL being around!
I am leaning towards to thinking that Aunt May should be...retired as well.
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Post by dav on Jun 4, 2014 19:38:33 GMT
As for Aunt May, her character is nothing like the frail, sickly, doting woman she was in the 60's. IMHO I really think it's time to do away with her. She served her purpose, but now she really has worn out her usefulness in the franchise. It's amazing how some people have a problem with bringing back Gwen, but don't have a problem with May STILL being around! I almost wanted to rip my eyes out when I saw her in a mini-skirt! And yes, there're many things Spidey fans amaze me with, and they usually come from the same type of fans, coincidence?
DEFINITELY not a coincidence! Probably many of these type of fans are living in their Aunt's basements!
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