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Post by dav on Jun 4, 2014 19:42:39 GMT
Despite the cynicism of modern readers I will give them credit for being more sophisticated. For this reason, Marvel doesn't have to de-age Peter anymore. The audience can handle him not being the naïve college student he was.
As for Aunt May, her character is nothing like the frail, sickly, doting woman she was in the 60's. IMHO I really think it's time to do away with her. She served her purpose, but now she really has worn out her usefulness in the franchise. It's amazing how some people have a problem with bringing back Gwen, but don't have a problem with May STILL being around!
I am leaning towards to thinking that Aunt May should be...retired as well.
It's a shame they didn't just leave her alone back in #400. That was a very graceful and touching way to "retire" her character. Bringing her back the way they did after that was an abomination in and of itself!
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 4, 2014 19:45:12 GMT
Not to mention it wasn't the first time they brought her back.
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Post by dav on Jun 4, 2014 19:51:01 GMT
This idea has definite possibilities. It's been a while, perhaps you can refresh my memory as to how much of a connection Miles Warren had to Norman Osborn. There might be a way to retcon it so that Miles had a connection with Norman for quite a while BEFORE #121 and in some master plan using clones and such, Sins Past could have been with a clone and NOT Gwen. Maybe there was a switch while she was in England or something (This could also be used to explain why she acted so wimpy after she came back from England! ) It was stablished, in ASM #149, that Miles started his mental decline, which led to him becoming the Jackal, AFTER Gwen's death in #121. As for Gwen acting "wimpy", what did you expect? Conway was writing her!
Miles decline after #121 is something that could easily be retconned. He could be made to have mental instability, but not publicly noticable before #121, and he definitely had an unhealthy preoccupation with Gwen before #121.
He could still be made to have a connection with Norman earlier, which could be the basis for undoing Sins Past.
At least we know he had good taste in women!
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Post by dav on Jun 4, 2014 19:54:21 GMT
Not to mention it wasn't the first time they brought her back.
No s#!t! And yet bringing Gwen back is such a big deal!!
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Post by spiderman62 on Jun 4, 2014 19:55:27 GMT
I am leaning towards to thinking that Aunt May should be...retired as well.
It's a shame they didn't just leave her alone back in #400. That was a very graceful and touching way to "retire" her character. Bringing her back the way they did after that was an abomination in and of itself!
Yeh it is a shame they did that.
Still having said that JMS's run featured May finally knowing about Peter and that led to some great lines from her.
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Post by dav on Jun 4, 2014 19:58:04 GMT
It's a shame they didn't just leave her alone back in #400. That was a very graceful and touching way to "retire" her character. Bringing her back the way they did after that was an abomination in and of itself!
Yeh it is a shame they did that.
Still having said that JMS's run featured May finally knowing about Peter and that led to some great lines from her.
Good point!
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 4, 2014 20:04:55 GMT
Miles decline after #121 is something that could easily be retconned. He could be made to have mental instability, but not publicly noticable before #121 It was his own admission, how he told the story, nobody noticed anything wrong with him until he took the mask of. Was he mad before? He was madly in love, that's for sure. Gwen's death affected him more than Peter!
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 4, 2014 20:08:27 GMT
Not to mention it wasn't the first time they brought her back.
No s#!t! And yet bringing Gwen back is such a big deal!!
The rationale behind that argument is really weak. We can't bring her back, because she's been dead for too long, and her death has become important to the mythos. Something that time only makes worse and that, if undone, would ALSO be cured with time.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 4, 2014 20:13:00 GMT
Still having said that JMS's run featured May finally knowing about Peter and that led to some great lines from her. I liked The Conversation as much as the next guy. But that story would've worked for me too, in the case that it had been a What if. Heck, I consider all the post-80's MU a big What if.
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Post by dav on Jun 4, 2014 20:19:36 GMT
OK getting back to how to bring Gwen back, here's my new proposal.
Warren and Norman had a connection before #121. Let's say Norman was funding Warren's clone research. Warren had samples of Gwen's tissue and had made a clone which Norman said had died but he in fact had kept her as an experiment for himself. He impregnated the clone, then kidnapped Gwen and sent the clone out with the “memory” that they had had sex. Everything goes along as is depicted in the comics, but the clone ends up dying in #121 not Gwen. Gwen is held prisoner by Norman until modern day. (There will need to be a lot of filler material in here) Somehow she escapes and comes back to Peter.
This is kind of lame. There needs to be more complications in the plot, but it takes away Sins Past and brings back the REAL Gwen in modern day.
Any suggestions to make it better are welcome.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 4, 2014 20:31:53 GMT
I could keep mentioning ASM #149, but I think it would be better I you went and re-read pages 6-9.
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Post by spiderman62 on Jun 4, 2014 20:39:33 GMT
I have an idea that's probably been touched on already but here it is.
What if the Gwen who'd been thrown of the bridge was the clone?, and the real Gwen would've been unconscious in some lab of Jackal's all this time? and that Jackal and Goblin made Peter think she was dead to mess with his head. Never having sex with Norman, who instead had sex with a clone and the children who ''Gwen'' had were actually clones themselves?
That way you could bring her back and it wouldn't be a clone.
As I say it's probably been thought of already but there you go.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 4, 2014 20:48:10 GMT
Isn't that something very similar to what Drew proposed, not two posts ago, John? It really looks like you're of your game today
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Post by dav on Jun 4, 2014 20:50:18 GMT
I could keep mentioning ASM #149, but I think it would be better I you went and re-read pages 6-9. I am aware of this, but in my story he thought that his first clone attempt died. Maybe he was trying to make a clone of Gwen for himself because he loved her, but as I said in my story Norman tells him the clone died. Let's say at this point he really didn't expect to be successful in cloning Gwen the first time out, but after her death THEN he became obsessed and snapped. But of course he didn't realize that Norman had actually swapped Gwen and the clone so the clone died at the bridge.
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Post by spiderman62 on Jun 4, 2014 20:50:21 GMT
Isn't that something very similar to what Drew proposed, not two posts ago, John? It really looks like you're of your game today Yeah I am of my game today aren't I? Didn't even see the post I blame the alcohol
Sorry Drew.
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