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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 11:05:22 GMT
You should give yourself more credit John, I just had a thought and this is way out there but what if Warren had broke before and Gwen had been there and helped him through it. During this time he perefected the clone technique and Gwen had the clone created and stored with preset conditions of when she should be released because she was the only thing her dad had. This would obviously be before Captain Stacy was killed. Afterwards she forgot about the clone and was kidnapped. Warren had recovered and forget about the work he did (he was crazy so he didn't write it down or maybe have Gwen destroy all the evidence to cover her tracks) it would modernize at the same time it gives her a flaw but its not something inexecuseable and then go with my other idea from there.
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Post by spiderman62 on Aug 21, 2014 15:56:43 GMT
Thank you Volcaniktiger86 but the truth is I'm not very good at imagining plot lines or story arcs or anything like that in general. I'm good in other areas, just not that.
As for your idea, it's better than some I've heard and could work if it had the right writer for it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 13:14:45 GMT
Ok i looked into this and heres what i think and i'll give two options.
as in the link i published Gwen and Norman(shudders) conceived the babies between 61 - 64 They were born between 93 - 98 now to explain this rememeber that they grew 2-3 times quicker than normal so Gwen would only need to carry them for 3-4 months and then start working to cover up the evidence. Now this is where it can differ depending on your sins past view between 98 - 121 she looks after Miles who breaks and creates a clone either the clone replaces her or it doesn't however i would want her to decided to leave to protect Peter from Norman as she knows he would want to help her raise the kids and also she knows that Norman won't let them live in peace. She is kidnapped shortly after the events of SSM #31. Truthfully to the character, age is keep in tact and gives her a flaw.
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Post by Ozymandias on Sept 9, 2014 13:28:55 GMT
as in the link i published Gwen and Norman(shudders) conceived the babies between 61 - 64 I guess you're referring to this post: If so, I already addressed this topic here.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2014 9:18:28 GMT
as in the link i published Gwen and Norman(shudders) conceived the babies between 61 - 64 I guess you're referring to this post: If so, I already addressed this topic here. I looked further and have to agree this whole thing is a mess and i doubt you can retcon it without stretching the orginal text so maybe this is why they won't bring back gwen. Damm it i want Gwen 616 back.
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Post by spiderman62 on Jan 23, 2015 19:35:40 GMT
Erm, just thought I'd mention that during the, frankly amateurish, press conference on Tuesday, Alonso said somewhat jokingly (or was it jokingly?) ''If we wanted to bring Gwen Stacy back this'd be the perfect place to do it''.
Just thought I'd mention that. Thoughts?
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Post by Ozymandias on Jan 24, 2015 8:51:34 GMT
I have absolutely no info on this guy's background, so I can't even begin to speculate, on his motivations for making such an ambiguous statement. Heck, I don't even usually follow press conferences, interviews, or downright marketing (the first two being not very well dissimulated forms of the latter). It's all basically a game of lies and half truths, aimed at raising expectations and, subsequently, sales. The last big lie from Marvel, regarding Spider-Man, was how his death was going to be absolutely final. I didn't believe it, and had more than a discussion with people over at CBR, who defended the verisimilitude of that particular statement, because this writer or that editor had said so. They just want your money, and until the day some pissed, rich and bored fan sues them, they'll just keep lying through their teeth.
Only time makes the (fictitious) facts we read in a comic, true. In that sense, Gwen Stacy's death was one of the few announcements, which could be seen at first as sales induced, ever made by Marvel and which turned out to be true. Of course, history can change, but more than 40 years, already is history. If they brought her back, her death wouldn't be less true.
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Post by spiderman62 on Jan 29, 2015 13:16:36 GMT
Okay doke Ozy. Like I said I just thought I'd mention it. Personally, I feel like he's just teasing the Gwen (616 original) fans with that statement but we'll see soon enough
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Post by spiderman62 on Jan 29, 2015 13:16:46 GMT
Having said that it'd be interesting to see how Gwen fits back in since the Universe has changed quite a bit since she was killed.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jan 29, 2015 14:12:02 GMT
The thing about the character fitting in today's MU, reminds me of a private conversation I had with Drew, in the early days of the forum. He told me he'd eventually post it in public (as per my request), but it doesn't look like that's ever going to happen, so here it is: I personally don't care about the current state of things in Earth-616. Things are messed up beyond repair, most characters, including Spider-Man, are unrecognizable. There's still good stories from time to time, but it's a shared feeling with many others, that the MU died in the 80's.
[..] I think that newer or younger readers are clinging to a new cynicism about life and that is why they are resistant to what we are trying to accomplish. It's easier to maintain a victim mentality than try and make the world a better place.
I think Gerry Conway went through a similar experience. He fell in love with a girl in high school similar to MJ and he wanted to vicariously find a way to make this scenario work. He of course had to eliminate the Gwen type of personality to make the MJ persona fit into his scheme of things. The Gwen type of personality might have actually be the right choice for him, but he didn't want to acknowledge this, so he made Spidey's world fit his ideal.
Perhaps what we are doing is something today's Spidey reader doesn't want to acknowledge. That Gwen is in fact the better choice in spite of what society is trying to dictate. That a person of comparable intelligence and passion is better for us than the supermodel that society is trying to steer us toward.
I think we need to find some kind of middle ground, in order to carry this message forth to the comic demographic. That the world can be a better place if we are willing to persevere. […]
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Post by dav on Mar 1, 2015 21:58:33 GMT
The thing about the character fitting in today's MU, reminds me of a private conversation I had with Drew, in the early days of the forum. He told me he'd eventually post it in public (as per my request), but it doesn't look like that's ever going to happen, so here it is:
[..] I think that newer or younger readers are clinging to a new cynicism about life and that is why they are resistant to what we are trying to accomplish. It's easier to maintain a victim mentality than try and make the world a better place.
I think Gerry Conway went through a similar experience. He fell in love with a girl in high school similar to MJ and he wanted to vicariously find a way to make this scenario work. He of course had to eliminate the Gwen type of personality to make the MJ persona fit into his scheme of things. The Gwen type of personality might have actually be the right choice for him, but he didn't want to acknowledge this, so he made Spidey's world fit his ideal.
Perhaps what we are doing is something today's Spidey reader doesn't want to acknowledge. That Gwen is in fact the better choice in spite of what society is trying to dictate. That a person of comparable intelligence and passion is better for us than the supermodel that society is trying to steer us toward.
I think we need to find some kind of middle ground, in order to carry this message forth to the comic demographic. That the world can be a better place if we are willing to persevere. […] Thanks for posting my comments, Ozy. Sorry I didn't get around to posting them myself! It's a pretty good summary of my feelings on the subject. Gwen could be made to fit into today's MU. MJ was in the Silver Age as well, and her character has been modified to suit the modern MU and in the same way so could Gwen. Her core character would remain the same it would just call for giving her character more dimension, just like they did with MJ, and for that matter, ALL the core characters. After all this Spider-Ock insanity, bringing Gwen back IMHO would bring the franchise back down to earth. One of the things that made me a fan of Spidey to begin with was that it wasn't all about super hero fighting super villain. There was the personal aspect. IMHO Get as bizarre as you want to with the super hero stuff, but still have Peter deal with the same humdrum drama that us ordinary folk have to deal with. It humanizes him and makes him stay relatable to the reader. I'm not saying that things can't get crazy on occasion, but then let things settle back down to normal, that's how things were back in the Silver Age and that's why I liked it. To try and keep building more and more outlandish plots without allowing things to diffuse occasionally, is a recipe for disaster. Bringing Gwen Back would be a great way to bringing back more personal drama to the franchise.
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Post by Ozymandias on Mar 1, 2015 22:35:58 GMT
Don't mention it, I just took advantage of the opportunity, to place someone else's point of view on the matter.
When he gets to that point in his thread, you'll see crazyoldhermit's thoughts on the character's personal aspect (towards the end of the Ditko era, there's a recap).
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Post by dav on Mar 1, 2015 22:48:46 GMT
Don't mention it, I just took advantage of the opportunity, to place someone else's point of view on the matter. When he gets to that point in his thread, you'll see crazyoldhermit's thoughts on the character's personal aspect (towards the end of the Ditko era, there's a recap). It should be quite interesting and insightful.
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Post by dav on May 21, 2015 1:27:59 GMT
Having reviewed the posts regarding Sins Past, I have humbly come to the realization that it has so infected the Spidey timeline that it is beyond resolution. Pragmatically, My new position would be to bring a Gwen over from an alternate universe. A universe with no Sins Past, no OMD, no Secret Wars, no Clone Saga, etc. Y'know, a SANE universe!! LOL
I find Spider-Gwen enticing, but there are infinite options. Maybe a Gwen that didn't come back from England from ASM #95 (and didn't have sex with with Osborn! Hey, it's an alternate universe anything goes!) Although she got on with her life, she never married. Got her Bio-Chemistry degree from Oxford and was living a normal life until some cosmic force swept her up and dropped her back in New York in Earth 616. From that point Marvel never mentions ANYTHING about Sins Past and just lets it fade into obscurity! The virtuous Gwen that we remember from before Sins Past is now a reality in the modern day. Peter and she rekindle their romance and live the life they were supposed to have. Sanity and justice is restored to the franchise.
Just for good measure, the same cosmic force that brings Gwen to Earth 616 drags Osborn over to the alternate universe never to be seen again! Yeah, Baby!
Any thoughts?
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Post by Ozymandias on May 21, 2015 9:24:54 GMT
A sane universe, you say? Did Marvel have any of those? Not now, but before Secret Wars, I mean. That said, it makes for a funny turn of events, because I've been recently campaigning for SP to be retconned. It was in the latest thread about the topic, at CBR. I was of your opinion before, but the fact is that we Gwen fans, are greatly outnumbered by MJ fans (2 to 1 at least), and they would never leave SP alone. In order to move on, I think we need to destroy that story, the problem being that the way I proposed to do it, was tied to the 1984 universe. With recent developments in Time Runs Out, what we knew about The Beyonders, has changed. I'll wait for the new Secret Wars to end, before revisiting that concept.
The idea of bestowing powers on civilians, in the MU, is something I don't like. The way Lee depicted Gwen, was my ideal woman, having her climbing walls doesn't improve the character in the slightest, as far as I'm concerned. Furthermore, this is a different character with a different history and personality. I'm not saying I'm against it, but seeing (for example) people pollute CBR's Gwen Appreciation thread, with Spider-Gwen material, certainly displeases me.
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