Post by darthfury78 on Jun 24, 2015 10:21:20 GMT
Quote Originally Posted by Dan Slott
Tigra has never really had any kind of strong link to Peter Parker/Spider-Man.
This seems like an arbitrary choice.
Tigra has never really had any kind of strong link to Peter Parker/Spider-Man.
This seems like an arbitrary choice.
Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78
Gerry Conway was the first ASM to pair Greer Grant with Spider-Man in a team-up adventure and J.M. DeMatteis was the last ASM writer to use her and Spider-Man together. After that, no one else has used Tigra and Spider-Man together since 1982. It might had been fun to had seen Tigra featured in Kraven's Last Hunt if DeMatteis had used her in that story in addition to Spider-Man.
Gerry Conway was the first ASM to pair Greer Grant with Spider-Man in a team-up adventure and J.M. DeMatteis was the last ASM writer to use her and Spider-Man together. After that, no one else has used Tigra and Spider-Man together since 1982. It might had been fun to had seen Tigra featured in Kraven's Last Hunt if DeMatteis had used her in that story in addition to Spider-Man.
Originally Posted by Dan Slott
I disagree.
For DeMatteis to have used her in KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT would have been a very bizarre and arbitrary choice... based solely off of one Marvel Team-Up story and an out of continuity Spidey Super Story. Having any other hero running around during KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT (especially an arbitrary one) would have pulled focus away from the very simple/clean/poetic focus of the bare bones cast of Spider-Man, Kraven, Vermin, and MJ.
I disagree.
For DeMatteis to have used her in KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT would have been a very bizarre and arbitrary choice... based solely off of one Marvel Team-Up story and an out of continuity Spidey Super Story. Having any other hero running around during KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT (especially an arbitrary one) would have pulled focus away from the very simple/clean/poetic focus of the bare bones cast of Spider-Man, Kraven, Vermin, and MJ.
Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78
Had Conway integrated Greer into Spider-Man's world, she might have avoided being used as an avatar for Tigra. In addition, Greer might have been Peter's first anti-catwoman relationship whereby she's a cat themed character who works as a part of the NYPD of which Felicia Hardy is not. Greer might have been the perfect contrast to Felicia as one of Peter's close friends, especially if Conway had transferred her from University of Chicago to ESU as one of Peter's classmates. The one thing that might have bonded them together was the lose of a loved one which as Greer's husband and Peter's Gwen Stacy.
Had Conway integrated Greer into Spider-Man's world, she might have avoided being used as an avatar for Tigra. In addition, Greer might have been Peter's first anti-catwoman relationship whereby she's a cat themed character who works as a part of the NYPD of which Felicia Hardy is not. Greer might have been the perfect contrast to Felicia as one of Peter's close friends, especially if Conway had transferred her from University of Chicago to ESU as one of Peter's classmates. The one thing that might have bonded them together was the lose of a loved one which as Greer's husband and Peter's Gwen Stacy.
Originally Posted by Dan Slott
HAD they had done this... It MIGHT have gone this way... IF there was a story where...
When you talk about Peter/Spider-Man and Greer/Tigra, you keep mentioning things that DIDN'T happen in the past, but that you would have LIKED to have happened. That's called "head canon". There are stories that you wished had taken place, but in the end, they didn't happen at all.
It's okay to want things-- and even to have wanted things to have happened differently. But "head canon" cannot act as "actual canon." Actual canon (or actual continuity) belongs to books we've all read-- and experiences we've all shared together as an audience. In that actual continuity, there have been only 1 or 2 adventures where Spidey & Tigra have properly teamed up and spent quality time together. And those are two adventures that most of the newer audience (of the past 30 years) haven't really experienced. So this whole Spidey & Tigra shipping really feels like it comes out of left field. Sorry.
HAD they had done this... It MIGHT have gone this way... IF there was a story where...
When you talk about Peter/Spider-Man and Greer/Tigra, you keep mentioning things that DIDN'T happen in the past, but that you would have LIKED to have happened. That's called "head canon". There are stories that you wished had taken place, but in the end, they didn't happen at all.
It's okay to want things-- and even to have wanted things to have happened differently. But "head canon" cannot act as "actual canon." Actual canon (or actual continuity) belongs to books we've all read-- and experiences we've all shared together as an audience. In that actual continuity, there have been only 1 or 2 adventures where Spidey & Tigra have properly teamed up and spent quality time together. And those are two adventures that most of the newer audience (of the past 30 years) haven't really experienced. So this whole Spidey & Tigra shipping really feels like it comes out of left field. Sorry.
Posted by Darthfury 78
In the world of comics, everything is left field. Silk and Spider-Man(and to some extent, Alpha) is left field because she has the same origins as Peter which was never presented by any other writer in the past. Felicia becoming a villain is left field because of what Otto did to her? Not to mention that Dr. Ock is the Superior Spider-Man? Yeah. That's left field also. And everything is arbitrary in the world of fiction. What one writer finds left field could be interesting to another. I am sorry but I see a lot of left field tactics in the world of Marvel in recent years. And Tigra and Spider-Man is no different from Spider-Man and Captain Marvel(Carol Danvers) or Spider-Man and Captain Britain(Brian Braddock).
What is left field is the fact that Tigra never really fit in with the Avengers until Roger Stern made it work. in addition, Stern was the one who got the She-Hulk into the Avengers, as well as John Byrne on the Fantastic Four. I am am sure a lot of folks at Marvel at the time felt that both heroines felt out of place because neither of them had a history with either teams until a writer made it so. Thus you have your opinion just like any other writer.
And the biggest left field of all time is Black Cat as a crime boss....
In the world of comics, everything is left field. Silk and Spider-Man(and to some extent, Alpha) is left field because she has the same origins as Peter which was never presented by any other writer in the past. Felicia becoming a villain is left field because of what Otto did to her? Not to mention that Dr. Ock is the Superior Spider-Man? Yeah. That's left field also. And everything is arbitrary in the world of fiction. What one writer finds left field could be interesting to another. I am sorry but I see a lot of left field tactics in the world of Marvel in recent years. And Tigra and Spider-Man is no different from Spider-Man and Captain Marvel(Carol Danvers) or Spider-Man and Captain Britain(Brian Braddock).
What is left field is the fact that Tigra never really fit in with the Avengers until Roger Stern made it work. in addition, Stern was the one who got the She-Hulk into the Avengers, as well as John Byrne on the Fantastic Four. I am am sure a lot of folks at Marvel at the time felt that both heroines felt out of place because neither of them had a history with either teams until a writer made it so. Thus you have your opinion just like any other writer.
And the biggest left field of all time is Black Cat as a crime boss....
Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78
In the world of comics, everything is left field. Silk and Spider-Man(and to some extent, Alpha) is left field because she has the same origins as Peter which was never presented by any other writer in the past.
In the world of comics, everything is left field. Silk and Spider-Man(and to some extent, Alpha) is left field because she has the same origins as Peter which was never presented by any other writer in the past.
Originally Posted by Dan Slott
Yes. In the same way that Cloak & Dagger were "left field" when they were created. Or the Prolwer. Or the Lizard-- or ANY character when they first appeared.
That is not comparable to someone creating an improbable relationship to a character Spider-Man had 2 encounters with over 50+ years, just because of your personal head canon and your desire to "ship" them.
Yes. In the same way that Cloak & Dagger were "left field" when they were created. Or the Prolwer. Or the Lizard-- or ANY character when they first appeared.
That is not comparable to someone creating an improbable relationship to a character Spider-Man had 2 encounters with over 50+ years, just because of your personal head canon and your desire to "ship" them.
Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78
Felicia becoming a villain is left field because of what Otto did to her?
Felicia becoming a villain is left field because of what Otto did to her?
Originally Posted by Dan Slott
I think you're confusing story concepts with "Why won't Dan do the one thing that I, Darthfury78, wants done."
Felicia's turn, the Doc Ock/Superior storyline, Flash becoming Agent Venom, Kaine getting cured in Spider-Island and becoming the new Scarlet Spider...
...are all status changes that came out of stories *I* the writer wished to tell.
Every story has to come from *somewhere*.
I have absolutely no interest in building off of 2 random issues of Marvel Team-Up to backwards build a Greer/Peter relationship where none really existed before-- or bore any interesting fruit.
The Felicia Crime Boss turn didn't come out of nowhere.
It came from Superior Spider-Man running into the Black Cat. How WOULD he deal with her? That is the premise that spiraled into-- she flirts with him, he takes her out, she goes to jail, she loses everything, she breaks out.... and what happens next.
That's a world away from: Hey, remember that Marvel Team-Up from 33 years ago? Someone should really bring back that thing from it... that didn't sort of even happen in it... because.... well... WOULDN'T it have been cool if that character WERE in Kraven's Last Hunt?
THAT is left field.
And that's being generous to the field.
That's more like out of left continent.
Or left spiral arm of the galaxy. ;-)
I think you're confusing story concepts with "Why won't Dan do the one thing that I, Darthfury78, wants done."
Felicia's turn, the Doc Ock/Superior storyline, Flash becoming Agent Venom, Kaine getting cured in Spider-Island and becoming the new Scarlet Spider...
...are all status changes that came out of stories *I* the writer wished to tell.
Every story has to come from *somewhere*.
I have absolutely no interest in building off of 2 random issues of Marvel Team-Up to backwards build a Greer/Peter relationship where none really existed before-- or bore any interesting fruit.
The Felicia Crime Boss turn didn't come out of nowhere.
It came from Superior Spider-Man running into the Black Cat. How WOULD he deal with her? That is the premise that spiraled into-- she flirts with him, he takes her out, she goes to jail, she loses everything, she breaks out.... and what happens next.
That's a world away from: Hey, remember that Marvel Team-Up from 33 years ago? Someone should really bring back that thing from it... that didn't sort of even happen in it... because.... well... WOULDN'T it have been cool if that character WERE in Kraven's Last Hunt?
THAT is left field.
And that's being generous to the field.
That's more like out of left continent.
Or left spiral arm of the galaxy. ;-)
Quote Originally Posted by Dan Slott
Every story has to come from *somewhere*.
I have absolutely no interest in building off of 2 random issues of Marvel Team-Up to backwards build a Greer/Peter relationship where none really existed before-- or bore any interesting fruit.
Every story has to come from *somewhere*.
I have absolutely no interest in building off of 2 random issues of Marvel Team-Up to backwards build a Greer/Peter relationship where none really existed before-- or bore any interesting fruit.
Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78
No one is asking you to write a Spider-Man and Tigra story. Just as no one is asking you to write a Spider-Man and Captain Marvel story either. I asked for your opinion. That was it.
Every Spider-Man writer has a favorite. What doesn't interest you someone else will take advantage of. Just like Peter dating Carol Danvers, which you went on record to say that if you had done the story, one of them would be a Skrull.
And the Spider-Man and Tigra story would not in any way revisit the old Marvel Team-up from where they left off. Although, I did mentioned that I wished that she was integrated into Spider-Man's world as NYPD Crime Scene Investigator. It doesn't mean that you have to write it anymore than someone wanting to write a Spider-Man and Wolverine team-up adventure against The Abomination and Carnage.
No one is asking you to write a Spider-Man and Tigra story. Just as no one is asking you to write a Spider-Man and Captain Marvel story either. I asked for your opinion. That was it.
Every Spider-Man writer has a favorite. What doesn't interest you someone else will take advantage of. Just like Peter dating Carol Danvers, which you went on record to say that if you had done the story, one of them would be a Skrull.
And the Spider-Man and Tigra story would not in any way revisit the old Marvel Team-up from where they left off. Although, I did mentioned that I wished that she was integrated into Spider-Man's world as NYPD Crime Scene Investigator. It doesn't mean that you have to write it anymore than someone wanting to write a Spider-Man and Wolverine team-up adventure against The Abomination and Carnage.
This goes to show that Slott feels that no one should have a creative imagination when he shoots down an idea from a person who was simply asking for his opinion. I asked this question to the last writer who wrote Tigra teaming up with Spider-Man in Marvel Team-Up #125, J.M. DeMatteis. I sent him my question on Tigra on to his Twitter page, and he was kind enough to answer my question. He enjoyed Tigra and Spider-Man working together. I asked DeMatteis to why she never appeared during his run on Spider-Man. He said that the idea of using Tigra never came up during the story discussions before the script was written.
I also asked Gerry Conway(The writer who paired The Cat and Spider-Man together) the same question as well. And he was surprised by my question about Greer Grant(The Cat) and Peter Parker. But he did agree that Greer would have fit into Spider-Man's world in the same manner as the Black Cat or the Punisher.
Can't believe that Slott was such a jerk about Tigra on the basis on 3 Marvel team-up adventures. It goes to show that he only focus on what has already been done and is not willing to look outsider the Spider-Box.
