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Post by Ozymandias on Dec 18, 2014 16:23:29 GMT
The only candidate I can think of, is HBO. Their series have both quality and generous budgets. The adaptation of GoT they're doing is quite encouraging, too.
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Post by spiderman62 on Dec 24, 2014 18:57:34 GMT
HBO seems like a popular channel in America. Would I be right in saying that?
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Post by Ozymandias on Dec 24, 2014 21:49:49 GMT
Sex and the City, The Sopranos, The Wire, Six Feet Under, True Blood… do they ring a bell?
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Post by spiderman62 on Dec 27, 2014 21:18:29 GMT
Yep. But the only one I've watched is True Blood. And even then that's because Leanne is into it (she's into her vampire stuff), saying that Leanne did use to watch Sex And The City but she went of it at some point.
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Post by dav on May 21, 2015 9:12:12 GMT
Coming into this thread late so my comments might be somewhat redundant! I believe it is possible for a faithful Spiderman on a tv budget. With CGI and green screen they can do wonders today. It does call for a good producer to manage the balance between drama and special effects. That's a big criticism I have about Sony's ASM 1 and 2. They went overboard on special effects in the wrong areas. They could have either saved a fortune in production costs or applied special effects better in different areas. The producers of The Avengers did a much better job with production. Yes these are movies, but they demonstrate my point.
Of course a good director working closely with the producer is important as well, making sure that the key moments get the attention they need. Also the director can't go overboard with artistry. I've seen some tv episodes where the director has just gone insane with symbolism and convoluted timelines deluding themselves into believing that tv viewers would be impressed with them trying to imitate Fellini!!
The directors also need to be aware of their core demographic: Spiderman fans. They are going to appreciate remaining faithful to the comic, which is advantageous because in the beginning Spiderman comics were quite subdued. Ditko's artwork was quite low key which would make it easy to translate to a satisfactory tv show. Of course to attract non-comic viewers which they will need to get adequate ratings, they may have to step up the filmography, but if they start off with a moderate pilot instead of going full tilt like some series do they could make it work.
Another important thing is the tone of the show. Back in the 70's, IMHO part of the reason that the Spiderman series tanked was that it's tone was too light. If it had a similar tone to The Incredible Hulk, it might have done a lot better. Definitely don't make it too dark though. That Daredevil series on Netflix has merits, but I stopped watching because it was too dark and depressing.
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Post by dav on May 21, 2015 9:27:02 GMT
As far as TV budgets are concerned Ozy I have no idea. Skipping the web-slinging for the most part could be a way to keep the show in budget CGI wise I suppose though you'd have to have SOME web-slinging every now and then otherwise it's just not Spidey! lol. Maybe the answer lies in waiting until CGI is cheaper to use?. Just a belated reply, IMHO the web slinging can be done adequately with green screen. Hell, you can even repeat many shots of the actor swinging and just change the background. As long as you don't do this excessively or have several different swing shots to choose from so that it doesn't become cheesy it could be workable. IMHO it would be important to have certain key shots be original in each episode to maintain the quality.
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Post by Ozymandias on May 21, 2015 9:31:25 GMT
What has never convoked me, in any of the Spider-Man movies so far, is the way the CGI character moves, it looks unnatural. I'm still waiting to see they resolve this issue, and before they do that, any form of real image series on the character, will be flawed. It's not so much about budget, as it is about art direction.
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Post by dav on May 21, 2015 13:44:40 GMT
What has never convoked me, in any of the Spider-Man movies so far, is the way the CGI character moves, it looks unnatural. I'm still waiting to see they resolve this issue, and before they do that, any form of real image series on the character, will be flawed. It's not so much about budget, as it is about art direction. Although CGI has come a long way, I agree, there is room for improvement. This is where other methods can and should be utilized. CGI is very inexpensive compared to other methods, that is why they are used in many B rated Sci Fi movies. A GOOD art director will only employ CGI in areas where the finished product is realistic and believable and will utilize other methods as necessary for realism. As for a tv Spiderman, if the rest of the show is done well, I would be willing to tolerate this shortcoming as long as it isn't TOO cheap-looking. I'm more of a stickler to fidelity to the story. If I were to produce a tv series I would try and follow the original plotlines more accurately. Episode #1 would recreate Amazing Fantasy #15. However, I might skip the Fantastic Four story in ASM #1. Trying to reproduce the FF would be expensive and for the non-comic audience, who may have never heard of the FF there would no realistic way to explain the background story, and since it's a standalone story, skipping it would have little effect on the series. The rescue of John Jameson could be done quite well IMHO. There might be other stories that would have to be skipped for this reason, but the B stories in those issues could be included in other episodes to carry the story forward. Something that made the Spiderman comic so popular is that it included the drama of his personal life. Something that was rarely utilized in the comics of that era. This would be perfect for a tv series. It would also be great for the budget. Action based tv series are expensive compared to drama based ones. This balance would keep the show economical.
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Post by Ozymandias on May 21, 2015 14:56:56 GMT
When I say that it would be flawed, I don't mean it couldn't be enjoyed. Peter Parker was always the core of the series, and you don't need a lot of SFX to get that part right. The question here is whether fidelity to the original material is the best way to go, or some improvements can be implemented. For example, I prefer the story, as told in Spider-Man Blue, over the comics it was based on.
The positive effect on the budget, that focusing on the character's personal life would have, is something I also contemplated. Still, when needed, it would be advisable to stay away from digital SFX as much as possible, and that's where the low budget doesn't help.
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Post by dav on May 21, 2015 20:27:30 GMT
When I say that it would be flawed, I don't mean it couldn't be enjoyed. Peter Parker was always the core of the series, and you don't need a lot of SFX to get that part right. The question here is whether fidelity to the original material is the best way to go, or some improvements can be implemented. For example, I prefer the story, as told in Spider-Man Blue, over the comics it was based on. The positive effect on the budget, that focusing on the character's personal life would have, is something I also contemplated. Still, when needed, it would be advisable to stay away from digital SFX as much as possible, and that's where the low budget doesn't help. I'm not saying the original material wouldn't need to be updated, but I would prefer the basic elements of the original material remain intact. Stick with the outline of the original stories but modernize them and don't throw in stuff that deviates from the original plots. As for Spiderman Blue, I'm would appreciate it if you could elaborate more on what aspects you prefer over the original material. I think that digital SFX can be utilized in ways that that can still maintain an acceptably realistic appearance. Could you give me some examples of circumstances where digital SFX where used that you consider unacceptable?
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Post by Ozymandias on May 21, 2015 22:26:58 GMT
The example that immediately comes to mind, of a bad CGI, is the fight scene between Neo and the multiple Mr. Smiths, in Matrix Reloaded. You could clearly see there that most of the time, it wasn't a person. A more recent one, would be the sharks, in Sharknado.
Spider-Man Blue, fixed several problems, I found in the original work, most notably, Adrian Toomes' incredible recovery, from death's door.
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Post by dav on May 22, 2015 8:20:41 GMT
The example that immediately comes to mind, of a bad CGI, is the fight scene between Neo and the multiple Mr. Smiths, in Matrix Reloaded. You could clearly see there that most of the time, it wasn't a person. A more recent one, would be the sharks, in Sharknado. Spider-Man Blue, fixed several problems, I found in the original work, most notably, Adrian Toomes' incredible recovery, from death's door. Ok, Matrix Reloaded was quite a while ago. CGI is much better today, but a good art director, director and producer would at least consider other ways of presenting that scene before settling on a method that might not present well, Could they have done a better job in Matrix Reloaded? Given the constraints of budget and technology of the day, IMHO probably not. Sometimes you just have to accept that they did the best the could given what they had to work with. Today they could probably do significantly better, but they are never going to achieve perfection. Sharknado? C'mon Juan that was a B movie! LOL A cheesy script, B list actors and a bargain basement budget! The fact that it even got released is a miracle! That is a movie to watch and have a good laugh, not to critique! I agree with you. Toomes recovery in "Blue" was better than the original story's "developed a will to live" scenario. However regarding "Blue," It needs to be acknowledged that it was out of order chronologically. Loeb took some liberties in that department, but I did enjoy the story and the ending was very touching.
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Post by Ozymandias on May 22, 2015 8:48:13 GMT
Absolutely, it's one of those movies that turn out to be so bad, you can't stop watching! It was just an example of how, even today, good CGI means money. How much? No idea, but it's a valid concern. While a good creative team should discern between what can be properly executed and what can't, Matrix Reloaded shows that even the best, can get caught up and push what they want to do, even if it isn't completely feasible.
I reserve further judgement on Spider-Man Blue, until such a time when I reach that work in the Top 100.
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Post by dav on May 23, 2015 4:02:26 GMT
Absolutely, it's one of those movies that turn out to be so bad, you can't stop watching! It was just an example of how, even today, good CGI means money. How much? No idea, but it's a valid concern. While a good creative team should discern between what can be properly executed and what can't, Matrix Reloaded shows that even the best, can get caught up and push what they want to do, even if it isn't completely feasible. I reserve further judgement on Spider-Man Blue, until such a time when I reach that work in the Top 100. I guess I have to ask you what your definition of faithful is? Faithful to me is fidelity to the original stories, so this is a matter of individual tastes and for that matter we are never going to agree. What I would consider an acceptable product you wouldn't and vice versa, so I don't think we can resolve this issue.
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Post by spiderman62 on Nov 27, 2017 16:55:26 GMT
I know it's been a while since we've discussed this but how would anyone feel about a tv series about Spider-Girl that still had Peter alive but as an older person and therefore doesn't swing around as much as he used to? Or would you rather just have a Spider-Man series?
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