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Post by Ozymandias on Oct 16, 2015 18:38:30 GMT
Even Felicia was written to be somewhat of a damsel in distress despite her abilities. I certainly don't see the connection many people establish, between the Black Cat and Catwoman. Just because they're female, feline themed villains, doesn't mean one takes after the other. In fact, despite her being a Spider-Man affair, I always think of her as Felicia. I don't really care about the costume, but her character was the only one I've ever entertained for Peter, after ASM #121. Maybe because there is some resemblance, not just in appearance, but in some basic traits of their personalities (sweet, passionate, devoted). Or maybe I just have a thing for daddy's girls  |
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Post by dav on Oct 16, 2015 22:12:57 GMT
Even Felicia was written to be somewhat of a damsel in distress despite her abilities. I certainly don't see the connection many people establish, between the Black Cat and Catwoman. Just because they're female, feline themed villains, doesn't mean one takes after the other. In fact, despite her being a Spider-Man affair, I always think of her as Felicia. I don't really care about the costume, but her character was the only one I've ever entertained for Peter, after ASM #121. Maybe because there is some resemblance, not just in appearance, but in some basic traits of their personalities (sweet, passionate, devoted). Or maybe I just have a thing for daddy's girls I guess for legal reasons the characters have to be different in particular ways but the are too many "copies" between Marvel and DC to make any kind of legal issue. Felicia had the unique position of loving Spider-man and not Peter like all the others. Also she could assist in crimefighting where the others would just be part of Peter's life. Their relationship was special in that way, but also in that way it was probably hard to write for and made it hard to maintain an interesting personal life for Peter. I'm sure the writers had some fun with it! As I said, we all have our preferences. Peter and Felicia's relationship dynamic was unique compared to his others. It was a good literary experiment for the writers to see what they could do with those two. I always saw Felicia as a somewhat immature character. She was sweet, passionate and devoted, but never seemed to be serious. She seemed to have her head in the clouds. For me, I never really saw a resemblance between Felicia and Gwen, but nothing wrong with daddy's girls! In fact I see Peter and Gwen's relationship being partially due to Peter sharing many qualities with Capt Stacy. I give the writers credit for making Peter's love interests different enough so that he didn't just have generic girlfriends to take up space. They all had unique personalities and their relationship dynamics were different. I still see Peter and Gwen as the most compatible. I really believe she was intentionally written to be his true love. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Oct 17, 2015 9:17:40 GMT
Felicia and Gwen are similar in the traits I pointed, but there's also some basic differences, mainly that Gwen was more mature and intelligent. It's just that the aspects of her personality I spotlighted, were quite odd, for a villain. Considering that Wolfman wrote MJ off the book, I don't think it's a coincidence he created a character that was, at its core, radically different to MJ. It gives me the impression, that he was aiming at a romantic interest, more than an antagonist.
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Post by dav on Oct 17, 2015 16:07:16 GMT
Felicia and Gwen are similar in the traits I pointed, but there's also some basic differences, mainly that Gwen was more mature and intelligent. It's just that the aspects of her personality I spotlighted, were quite odd, for a villain. Considering that Wolfman wrote MJ off the book, I don't think it's a coincidence he created a character that was, at its core, radically different to MJ. It gives me the impression, that he was aiming at a romantic interest, more than an antagonist. A possibility is that Wolfman had internalized the Batman-Catwoman dynamic and subconsciously brought that out in Felicia. She was a good character. She was a change of pace from the typical superhero girlfriend, but I can see her having a limited shelf life because of her immaturity. She was looking for fun and action while Peter was on a crusade. But this thread is about Gwen not Felicia, although she would make an interesting thread. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Oct 17, 2015 16:27:08 GMT
Taking a cue form Drew's last reply, I created a thread to discuss what could've possibly influenced Marv Wolfman in the conception of the character.
So far we have Catwoman and Gwen Stacy (!?).
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Post by dav on Oct 17, 2015 16:57:50 GMT
Taking a cue form Drew's last reply, I created a thread to discuss what could've possibly influenced Marv Wolfman in the conception of the character. So far we have Catwoman and Gwen Stacy (!?). I can see the similarities between Felicia and Gwen in hair color and the daddy's girl aspect, but other than those traits nothing really come to mind. What other similarities do you see, Juan? |
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Post by Ozymandias on Oct 17, 2015 17:13:27 GMT
"She was sweet, passionate and devoted", those are also your words. I don't think they equate a daddy's girl, so they should be treated as extra similarities. But yes, that'd be about it. Just one clarification, when I say "devoted", I mean to Peter |
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Post by dav on Oct 18, 2015 7:05:47 GMT
"She was sweet, passionate and devoted", those are also your words. I don't think they equate a daddy's girl, so they should be treated as extra similarities. But yes, that'd be about it. Just one clarification, when I say "devoted", I mean to Peter Yes, they were both sweet passionate and devoted but I see Felicia as more devoted to Spider-man as a opposed to Gwen being devoted to Peter. Either way, Felicia was a good character. She brought out an interesting dynamic that I see as being similar to the Batman-Catwoman relationship. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Oct 18, 2015 17:00:46 GMT
You're right, as a reader I usually forget that Peter and Spider-Man are two different entities in the story. The other characters aren't supposed to know  As for the dynamic Batman-Catwoman, I'm not that familiar, but I though she was more aggressive. |
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Post by dav on Oct 19, 2015 1:34:43 GMT
You're right, as a reader I usually forget that Peter and Spider-Man are two different entities in the story. The other characters aren't supposed to know As for the dynamic Batman-Catwoman, I'm not that familiar, but I though she was more aggressive. I think she probably was and Batman had a meaner side to him as well. It's kind of like a yin and yang relationship. An interesting dynamic for the readers but ultimately, tragically doomed. |
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Post by darthfury78 on Oct 19, 2015 6:41:16 GMT
I certainly don't see the connection many people establish, between the Black Cat and Catwoman. Just because they're female, feline themed villains, doesn't mean one takes after the other. In fact, despite her being a Spider-Man affair, I always think of her as Felicia. I don't really care about the costume, but her character was the only one I've ever entertained for Peter, after ASM #121. Maybe because there is some resemblance, not just in appearance, but in some basic traits of their personalities (sweet, passionate, devoted). Or maybe I just have a thing for daddy's girls I guess for legal reasons the characters have to be different in particular ways but the are too many "copies" between Marvel and DC to make any kind of legal issue. Felicia had the unique position of loving Spider-man and not Peter like all the others. Also she could assist in crimefighting where the others would just be part of Peter's life. Their relationship was special in that way, but also in that way it was probably hard to write for and made it hard to maintain an interesting personal life for Peter. I'm sure the writers had some fun with it! As I said, we all have our preferences. Peter and Felicia's relationship dynamic was unique compared to his others. It was a good literary experiment for the writers to see what they could do with those two. I always saw Felicia as a somewhat immature character. She was sweet, passionate and devoted, but never seemed to be serious. She seemed to have her head in the clouds. For me, I never really saw a resemblance between Felicia and Gwen, but nothing wrong with daddy's girls! In fact I see Peter and Gwen's relationship being partially due to Peter sharing many qualities with Capt Stacy. I give the writers credit for making Peter's love interests different enough so that he didn't just have generic girlfriends to take up space. They all had unique personalities and their relationship dynamics were different. I still see Peter and Gwen as the most compatible. I really believe she was intentionally written to be his true love. Actually, while Felicia dated Spider-Man, it was Peter Parker who she had a relationship with. In time, she began to love Peter Parker than Spider-Man because Felicia finally understood the man behind the mask. Just look at what's being done to the Black Cat as the result for her not having Peter in her life? Had Peter restored Felicia's memories, there was no way in Hell that Dan Slott would have been able to make her into Evil Black Cat. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Oct 19, 2015 8:02:53 GMT
Actually, while Felicia dated Spider-Man, it was Peter Parker who she had a relationship with. In time, she began to love Peter Parker than Spider-Man because Felicia finally understood the man behind the mask. Just look at what's being done to the Black Cat as the result for her not having Peter in her life? Had Peter restored Felicia's memories, there was no way in Hell that Dan Slott would have been able to make her into Evil Black Cat. As the relationship progressed, that was the case, but at the onset, she didn't even wanted to know who was behind the mask. One thing about her post-OMD feelings towards Spider-Man. If she was so much into him, at the beginning, how come she used him so blatantly during BND? The current state of affairs is out so much of character, it doesn't even deserve closer examination, unless new information is revealed to the reader. |
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Post by dav on Oct 20, 2015 10:46:45 GMT
I guess for legal reasons the characters have to be different in particular ways but the are too many "copies" between Marvel and DC to make any kind of legal issue. Felicia had the unique position of loving Spider-man and not Peter like all the others. Also she could assist in crimefighting where the others would just be part of Peter's life. Their relationship was special in that way, but also in that way it was probably hard to write for and made it hard to maintain an interesting personal life for Peter. I'm sure the writers had some fun with it! As I said, we all have our preferences. Peter and Felicia's relationship dynamic was unique compared to his others. It was a good literary experiment for the writers to see what they could do with those two. I always saw Felicia as a somewhat immature character. She was sweet, passionate and devoted, but never seemed to be serious. She seemed to have her head in the clouds. For me, I never really saw a resemblance between Felicia and Gwen, but nothing wrong with daddy's girls! In fact I see Peter and Gwen's relationship being partially due to Peter sharing many qualities with Capt Stacy. I give the writers credit for making Peter's love interests different enough so that he didn't just have generic girlfriends to take up space. They all had unique personalities and their relationship dynamics were different. I still see Peter and Gwen as the most compatible. I really believe she was intentionally written to be his true love. Actually, while Felicia dated Spider-Man, it was Peter Parker who she had a relationship with. In time, she began to love Peter Parker than Spider-Man because Felicia finally understood the man behind the mask. Just look at what's being done to the Black Cat as the result for her not having Peter in her life? Had Peter restored Felicia's memories, there was no way in Hell that Dan Slott would have been able to make her into Evil Black Cat. I guess I omitted an important word in my statement. "Felicia had the unique position of INITIALLY loving Spider-man and not Peter like all the others." Either way, for this reason, their dynamic was different than his other relationships. At the very least, with Peter's influence it would have been difficult for Dan Slott to make her evil. Although Dan has written some great stories, I am not a fan of the direction he has taken Spider-man. |
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Post by spiderman62 on Oct 23, 2015 12:31:46 GMT
I think Catwoman definitely played a part as far as the inspiration goes. How much so we'll never really know I think.
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