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Post by dav on Apr 4, 2016 0:44:08 GMT
So ... Life happens Didn't realize the whole outline didn't post :x My thoughts here - I think there needs to be a deep scar on Peter. Gwen is the life he could have had... MJ is the life he did. When you run into a serious ex after a long time - there is a gap caused by all the life and experiences they had without each other, and no matter what - you can never get that time back Choosing to be Spiderman lost him the life he could have had with Gwen. But they can fumble forward. She could have lots of experiences that make her a better charector. Stasis kind of treats her like a toy in a toy box. If she ages, she'd have no experiences, and would be an object of pitty. If she doesn't - she's years younger than her peers. Either way - not a good shot at bringing anything meaningful. I think she escaped, lives in a bit of fear and choose to stay away Peter's deep scar was Uncle Ben dying, and of course bringing him back wouldn't work. Gwen was secondary to what made him Spider-man and IMHO she could still be brought back. Yes, he COULD fumble forward, but then again they could just as easily be reunited. I still prefer her having a life rather than the stasis approach for the reasons you gave. I can see incorporating your staying away due to fear being part of why she stayed away. Maybe she recovered her memories, but stayed away for a while longer due to fear. She would have left a whole life, friends and relatives behind. As Ozy pointed out it's only been 7 years since her "death" so she could still be compelled to return. Also Peter's guilt still keeps Uncle Ben alive in his mind and I can see the same being true with Gwen. He has still looked back on her relatively recently, as I believe, to be the love of his life, so she could still be brought back, and of course Sony's ASM 2 rekindled interest in her so that could fuel her return.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 13:18:17 GMT
Dav my man its been ages here is an idea which I think can work, Gwen is in stasis (btw Sins Past clone lets leave it at that) and she doesn't remember who she is because she was put in stasis after knocking her head something like that. So she builds a life for her self and she is in New York on a shopping trip when the avengers fight someone (pick a group or villain any will do) and she falls off the bridge and Peter saves her (without the whole neck thing) he is singing his praises before pulling her up and BAM its gwen. (I would leave the issue there) the start of the next one would have Gwen ask "Who's Gwen". So the avengers help her and this way you can bring back some of the old favorites like MJ, Liz, Glory, Betty and then show Gwen meeting people that has touched peter's life (Anna Marie, Carlie, Cindy, Max, Bella, Eric, Uta etc) Whats people think its similar to yours but you could get an arc or three out of the fact that Peter and his crew are trying to help Gwen remember and then you could bring the twins in as her 'neices'
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Post by Ozymandias on May 2, 2016 13:29:18 GMT
This is basically what I told Drew would happen. For every fan, you have at least one different scenario. I think I already told you that I like the idea, but I can't help it, I want my toy as it was (this is a reference to a previous post). The character having a different life in between, means another biography.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 13:56:24 GMT
This is basically what I told Drew would happen. For every fan, you have at least one different scenario. I think I already told you that I like the idea, but I can't help it, I want my toy as it was (this is a reference to a previous post). The character having a different life in between, means another biography. I can understand that the only thing I think we may disagree is I want me some Peter/Gwen where I know a lot of people want Peter/MJ.
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Post by Ozymandias on May 2, 2016 14:44:46 GMT
Right now, I'd settle for having some "Peter".
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Post by dav on May 6, 2016 1:27:16 GMT
This is basically what I told Drew would happen. For every fan, you have at least one different scenario. I think I already told you that I like the idea, but I can't help it, I want my toy as it was (this is a reference to a previous post). The character having a different life in between, means another biography. Yeah, I never realized before how many different points of view there would be regarding this issue. We might be able to compromise and reach a consensus on some issues, but in other areas we all have firm stances. Maybe this is part of the reason Marvel doesn't want to bring Gwen back, because it is so passionate an issue that only a small minority would truly be satisfied. It's all a matter of taking what we can get and accepting it. The question is, how do we proceed given this impasse? We would really have to ask Marvel how THEY would bring back Gwen and ask ourselves if we could accept it, because it really is up to them.
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Post by Ozymandias on May 6, 2016 6:31:59 GMT
That was pretty much my reasoning, when I discussed with Phil, his idea about bringing the character back into the fold. All we can compromise on, is a way to show she's still alive, and leave it open, so Marvel can decide on how and when to proceed from there. I'm sure we'd all be disappointed with the outcome
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Post by vixx on May 10, 2016 3:49:38 GMT
It's really a two part problem - The first is micro - because the only way she can be alive is by sifting through the sand until you find enough grains to stick together a solid narrative. I does have to be great - just iron clad, and there is less debate because everyone wants the same thing. The fun part is next - because you have a living breathing character that's not coated in the sh.. Err baggage of the last 30 years... You can do anything with it as long as it threads nicely between the last 30 years worth of arcs and isn't a total hack job.... I think I'm better suited for the first task - and the ideas in this thread are way better than mine i think a oz / fav mashup would be best; especially is Peter had to deal with a Gwen that rejected him for a while... But shoot, anything less than a 40 issue who is hobgoblin arc would be s let down to me - which is why I know I'm the wrong one to write it .. I'm much better with the grains of sand Btw - noticed the finished outline in the other thread still didn't post. Can't figure out if that because of the size or word formatting. Life's freed up a bit - would like to wrap that up if there is interest - overall it was a very satisfying project and I re-read digital copies of 31 to 150 or so. Showed the outline to a uber geek friend and she was blown away, and tightened up the science... She said we did good and even the writers couldn't ---- it up lol .. her thoughts were Gwen should lose some time , but escape... 2 or 3 years. She also asked that Warren make a weapon that breaks clones down into reusable goo , then hunt the "kids" (and their creator, and the person that drew the hewn and Norman panel) down with it with a vengeance... Sent her a link to the site
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Post by Ozymandias on May 10, 2016 7:46:15 GMT
you have a living breathing character that's not coated in the sh.. Err baggage of the last 30 years... I think I'm better suited for the first task - and the ideas in this thread are way better than mine i think a oz / fav mashup would be best If we're just talking about the last 30 years, then "shit" was mostly appropriate, with a few honourable exceptions and a good chunk of the Straczynski run. I don't think such an approach would satisfy anyone. He wants the character to have a "life" in between, outside panel, so it can rejoin the cast without having to face a time gap. I don't mind about said gap, but want the character back as it was, and bear witness to whatever evolution it may experience, from that point forward.
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Post by vixx on May 11, 2016 3:30:56 GMT
you have a living breathing character that's not coated in the sh.. Err baggage of the last 30 years... I think I'm better suited for the first task - and the ideas in this thread are way better than mine i think a oz / fav mashup would be best If we're just talking about the last 30 years, then "shit" was mostly appropriate, with a few honourable exceptions and a good chunk of the Straczynski run. I don't think such an approach would satisfy anyone. He wants the character to have a "life" in between, outside panel, so it can rejoin the cast without having to face a time gap. I don't mind about said gap, but want the character back as it was, and bear witness to whatever evolution it may experience, from that point forward. I think, done correctly, a major charector coming back and having a life would be very satisfying - mostly because the characters have layers upon layers of bad story telling and need a bit of a reality check to pull them back and break them down to what made us like them to begin with. So far they've figured out they need a reset .. But fail in every way possible to pull it off convincingly. For me - part of the allure of Gwen is she died before things went sideways.. As a stand alone character she's kind of one dimensional ( in the best ways) ... So an off panel tweak to keep her inline experience wise and not just fall back into the dysfunction ... Stays true to the heart of the series but breaks that one dimensional mold has merit. I may not love it but id read it. A good writer can build that into something wonderful - but a Spiderman writer would take that opportunity, complicate the shit out of it, add a weak supporting cast no one cares about, sprinkle some clones and piss all over the golden age of the title as some twist climax... Then blame Norman Osborn as pulling the strings for the last 50 issues ... Wrapping it up in time for aunt mays 191st birthday .. In the hospital
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Post by Ozymandias on May 11, 2016 5:56:50 GMT
As a stand alone character she's kind of one dimensional [...] Wrapping it up in time for aunt mays 191st birthday .. In the hospital The Chameleonic Gwen thread was an attempt, at showing this wasn't the case. Setting aside the different versions of the character, that Ditko and Romita offered (also true for the rest of the cast), there were more nuances about her, than in any other Marvel character written by Lee. Agreed, The Man wasn't exactly known for the depth of his creations, but in this case, he put an extra effort. I believe this to be so, because he was writing his ideal woman (and mine, incidentally). I take it you aren't up to date, because she's been seen wearing a mini-skirt, in recent years, and it's been more than implied, that she has an active sex live.
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Post by vixx on May 11, 2016 14:01:53 GMT
I read a lot of it - but didn't put a lot of weight behind it, because most of what I see are little bits of detail added while preserving the overall narrative; and all the characters have gained some depth over the years. i get they are constrained by her death having to resonate... but what they've come up with is kind of judgey and always seems to be heavy handed. Granted - it's little drips and drabs of stories by multiple authors ( excluding the clone and modern spider Gwen stuff).
What I'd be looking for is to keep the foundation but break out of the mold - and you have the backstory pieces to write something really good.
She's raised well and finds someone she loves, suffers sudden loss with her dad, relationship drama ensues, is really smart but vulnerable, and (hopefully) survives a harrowing experience on the bridge. (I reject sins lol) Depending on what she learns ( like his secret identity, what happened to Harry, if she met her clone, etc.) it's enough to build out something interesting. She's be .. About 23 to 26 now?
Of coarse you could go all crazy and go with Peter finding out she did escape the GG, moved to London where she was happy .. But died in a random sniper rifle accident - so common these days (eye roll) - that remains unsolved lol
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Post by Ozymandias on May 11, 2016 14:30:48 GMT
She's be .. About 23 to 26 now? I don't know about "now", but at the time of the bridge incident, the character must've been close to 21. Peter "must" be around 29.
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Post by vixx on Jul 5, 2016 21:53:20 GMT
Small side note: Been trying to think of reasonable places the swap could have happened with enough time to still do battle... Norman has the advantage in knowing where he's going in advance.. Peter catches up to him after discovering Gwen's been grabbed. In the lovely master piece that showcases Norman's well reviewed return; MJ appears to be taken to a medical type facility located across (or really close to) the Daily Bugle. ASM 105 alludes that the Bugle is located on or near Madison Ave. Other , non specificly cited, sources have put Peter and Harry's apt in Chelsea...which kind of matches the view when he first starts looking for Osborn. Those 2 locations are 2 miles apart, and Madison to the Brooklyn Bridge is about 8 miles. My point - if you think about it ... in PPSM 75 - he states Peter has no idea what he's taken from him .. after walking around pretty nice lab, before leading him to another location close by ... after roofying his wife with .. gobby dust?. (which I believe is when her Sin's memories were implanted) pretty clear that places isn't in the master journals from 250... Think that may be where he took Gwen originally to do the swap... as ruthless as he is - he seems to have a history of kidnapping and holding onto Peter's friends and family - it's a long and distinguished list... which in itself is a bit odd... psychopaths aren't known for de-escalating behavior; and while he has no problem killing red shirts... he's not exactly going nuclear on his mortal foe either, instead doing stuff that's much less perm than death. Side note # 2 - I think if there is a Baby May - she's in what ever EURO "Hotel California" the wonder twins are trapped in... hell, the Gwen clone may be there too - if she was hit with a tranq gun and recaptured Kind of interesting that essentially ever character that could lead to a Goblin clone is dead or MIA (the baby comes from crazy Peter genes, the twins who are half norman post accident, and the best, fully functional clone they have ever produced - who is already s Europe)
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Post by Ozymandias on Jul 6, 2016 5:49:38 GMT
Other , non specificly cited, sources have put Peter and Harry's apt in Chelsea...which kind of matches the view when he first starts looking for Osborn. Those 2 locations are 2 miles apart, and Madison to the Brooklyn Bridge is about 8 miles. Smaller note, you're probably talking about this apartment, which Peter inhabited alone after Harry became GGII.
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