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Post by crazyoldhermit on Mar 13, 2015 19:58:58 GMT
Three years later I still haven't actually read it but now that I'm in this vintage Spidey world I think I should finally give it a go. I really enjoyed it when it came out, but was disappointed upon revisiting the series, a couple of years ago. It's not that it has aged badly, or anything like that, the problem is what I compared it to. The first time, competition was weak, we're talking the 90's, after all. The second time came quite close, to my whole rereading of the first three decades of Spider-Man comics, and it amply didn't live up, to the Lee-Ditko material. That makes me think I should read it when I get to the 400s. Good idea.
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Post by Ozymandias on Mar 13, 2015 20:21:18 GMT
Now he's playing the role of a strategist, with an unconventional plan that actually makes sense and doesn't involve Spidey at all. […] the inclusion of Noman Osborn 14 issues before his official debut and 8 issues before the debut of his nearly identical son can't make it a coincidence, and Ditko himself has said that Norman was always intended to be the Goblin. So what we have in this issue is a brilliant bit of foresight on Ditko's part, simply because of how inconspicuous it is. Who would suspect? And yet, there he is. Of course, to a kid in 1965 Foswell is probably the #1 suspect. It's not a difficult leap to make, except Foswell was in jail during the Goblin's first two appearances and when Peter saw the Goblin unmasked in #17 he didn't recognize him. The most unconventional part of that plan being, though, the improvised use of Spidey against his gang rivals ( à la Yojimbo). […] I had not noticed that, I'm not entirely convinced that's Osborn, because he wasn't used for a whole year, but the likeness and club membership of the character in #23, make a strong case, no doubt. I would need a page and panel reference here, to know which scene you're talking about. The last five issues have been sub-par, relative to the new plateau stablished in #13. They will improve shortly.
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Post by Ozymandias on Mar 13, 2015 23:19:20 GMT
As for the scene in #17, Osborn walks past in on page 7. His face isn't shown (so his first true appearance is in #23) and we only know him as the Green Goblin but if it were Foswell (as we're led to believe in #23) Peter would have recognized him. Yes, that caption makes it clear it wasn't Foswell, who they had in mind as the GG, although the pictures don't give a direct line of sight, for Peter to recognize anybody among that crowd, in the street. It's one of those cases, where the caption actually adds information to the storytelling. All in all, IF they knew from day one, who was going to be the civilian identity of the GG, I'm not sold on the execution of the idea. Norman doesn't get to be introduced, until just a couple of issues before the unmasking. He should've appeared way earlier, even before the GG, ideally.
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Post by Ozymandias on Mar 13, 2015 23:21:22 GMT
I think Norman made a few subsequent appearances at the club between now and his official debut. Nothing changes the fact that Norman is clearly in the club in #23, his identical son was introduced in #31 and in #37 he is revealed to be a friend and clubmate of Jonah's. Why put him in there so early? Who knows? I think in this issue the intention was to put Norman in the place where he would find out Foswell is working for Jameson again, which would make Foswell the right avenue to deliver the information on Lucky Lobo, even if Stan's dialog kind of botches it. And I don't believe theres any evidence that Ditko actually intended to unmask the Goblin in #39. After all, he was plotting the stories independently and left Marvel without a word so it's unlikely that Stan knew what his plans were when putting the issue together. Ditko's quotes indicate that the relationship between Norman and Jameson was meant to be built up more and that Jameson was meant to tie into the whole thing. In Norman's first two appearances he certainly is very mysterious and is clearly up to no good but I don't think Ditko intended for that to be resolved right away. Stan would we the one responsible? I can totally get behind that theory. But responsibilities aside, the final product being what it is, the whole GG mystery wasn't well executed. They went for the option of the secret identity being that of someone known (nothing wrong there), but they planted the character at an early stage, only to leave him undeveloped, and rushed his real introduction, to get it done in time, just before the conclusion.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on Mar 14, 2015 3:30:26 GMT
The Amazing Spider-Man #24 (May 1965) "Spider-Man Goes Mad!" Script: Stan Lee Art: Steve Ditko Letters: Sam Rosen Cover: Steve Ditko Summary: Peter accepts a C.O.D. for Aunt May. He pays seven bucks for her new hat. The family is getting down to their last few bucks and Peter needs to go out and get some more (he hasn't sold any pictures in two months). As Spidey he finds a burglary in progress, sets up his camera and busts the baddies but unfortunately Foswell was passing by and will report the incident. Peter can't take the risk of selling the photos when Foswell knew he wasn't there so he reluctantly destroys the negatives. He heads to the Bugle to visit Betty but has to hide from Jameson, who hates when he hangs around without having any pictures to sell. When Betty stuffs his head behind her desk one of Ned's letters fall and he confronts her. She says that he was feeling lonely in Europe but Peter snaps at her and leaves. Foswell tells Jonah about the robbery and Jonah wants to spin it against Spidey. He asks how Foswell feels about Spider-Man, having been busted by him in the past. Foswell says he tries not to think of Spidey and Jonah realizes that Foswell is probably the only person who hates Spidey more than he does. He has the bright idea to interview people on the street to find out why other people hate the wall crawler. The reporters head out and ask leading questions, promising people that they'll get their name and photos in the paper if they say why they hate Spidey. Soon enough they get a ton of testimonies but the interview is interrupted by Flash threatening to give the reporter a fat lip. While Flash is chasing the reporter away Liz is asking Peter to tutor her for science class, which he is happy to do. Once again, Flash is cuckolded by Peter and can't understand why. Even with Flash's intervention Jonah's experiment was a success. The public is turning against him and this time it can't backfire on him. He is visited by Dr. Ludwig Rinehart, a European psychiatrist. He claims Spider-Man is delusional and will become increasingly unstable before suffering a mental breakdown. Jameson agrees to print his theories. The next day Peter reads the article and is more than a little freaked out. He calls Betty to see if Rinehart is legit and she confirms it. He rushes out the house and doesn't notice that Flash is nearby. Liz wasn't home when he called and Peter is now off somewhere in a hurry. He follows Peter but is easily detected. To distract him Peter throws his Spider Signal up in the air before quickly changing. He makes towards the Bugle (to find Rinehart's address) but spots Doc Ock! However, Ock turns out to not really be there. Neither is the Sandman or the Vulture, who also appear. Believing himself to be going mad and fearing he will eventually attack civilians he rushes home. But when he sees how sick he looks in the mirror he runs back out, not wanting Aunt May to see him in such a state. The poor woman watches him run and wonders why he feels he can't confide in her. Spidey was able to get Rinehart's address from the paper and goes to his house. The door is opened remotely and Spidey heads to the office. He finds the office arranged completely upside down, with the furniture on the ceiling. He runs frightened but now the hallway has reversed himself. Spidey begs Rinehart for help. As he lies on the couch he sees more apparitions of his villains. At the Bugle Foswell has urgent news for Jameson about Dr Rinehart. Betty can't hear what it is but Jameson blows his top and calls for the presses to be stopped. He runs out to confront Rinehart himself. Flash is out wandering the streets hoping to bump into Peter and Liz. What he finds is Jameson running out of a taxi. Flash chases after him, telling him to lay off Spidey and pick on the Human Torch or those nutty X-Men instead. Jameson tells him to play in traffic. They bust into Rinehart's office right when Spidey was about to give up his identity. Flash and Jameson scuffle as Spidey chases after Rinehart, who activates his trickery once more. He tackles and unmasks him to reveal Mysterio! Mysterio explains that he used rotating rooms and hologram projectors disguised as cats and bats to make Spidey think he was going insane. When Jameson realizes he just saved Spider-Man he has another little meltdown while Flash is overjoyed that Spidey spoke to him, even if it was to call him a fool. The next day Liz spots Peter and asks him for a science lesson. They go to Peter's house and Peter gets told off my Aunt May for running out on her, embarrassing Peter. He tells her that they'll be studying at Liz's house. Liz is happy to finally have some alone time with Peter while Peter is happy for a chance to give Betty a taste of her own medicine. As they walk away he realizes that he hasn't solved the money problem from the start of the issue. Observations: Jameson continues his tirade against Spidey. While he'd gotten burned previously by putting out phony editorials this time he's smart to enough to use the public against themselves. Of course, he blows it all by enlisting a phony psychiatrist. Mysterio's plot is very creative. First time around he just used movie special effects as superpowers. The second time he used robots. But this time he doesn't even appear in his costume, instead usually careful deception and trickery to make Spidey come to him. It's even better than his appearance in ASM #13. After being absent or diminished for a few issues Liz Allan is back. He finally manages to get her claws in Peter, even though he is in a way just using her to get back at Betty. Peter has finally reached his breaking point with Betty and he is sick of her hypocrisy and double play. It's refreshing to see him snap at her after taking her crap for issue after issue. Overall it's a very cool story and an ingenious use of the Mysterio character. 4/5
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Post by Ozymandias on Mar 14, 2015 8:25:18 GMT
It's even better than his appearance in ASM #13. I'd say it's about equal. ASM #24 is a halfway issue, in the road to recovering the lost ground.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on Mar 14, 2015 17:08:24 GMT
The Amazing Spider-Man #25 (June 1965) "Captured By J. Jonah Jameson!" Script: Stan Lee Plot: Steve Ditko Art: Steve Ditko Letters: Sam Rosen Cover: Steve Ditko After his study date with Liz Peter decides to go get his spider signal from the roof (left there last issue). While retrieving it he spots a group of car thieves. Rather than change and fight them he uses the signal to alert a cop to their presence and snaps a couple pics of the arrest. At home he gets to work on creating a spare costume, not wanting to be caught without his long underwear as he was two issues ago. The next day he goes to the Bugle to cash in his photos. He spots Jameson talking about an ad to one of his buddies, the man from his club with the improbable haircut. Finished with his business Jameson turns his attention to Peter's photos. They're nothing special but Peter, desperate for cash, sells himself up the river by saying they show Spidey being a loser. After all, what kind of superhero gets beat to the scene by cops? Jameson loves the idea enough to take credit for it and promises to send Pete a check in the morning. But Betty is disappointed that some of Jonah's Spidey hatred seems to be rubbing off on him. At that moment a man named Smythe comes into the office with a strange robot that he promises will be able to catch Spider-Man. Jameson refuses to even acknowledge him with a demonstration but Peter, seeing an opportunity for a photo-op, encourages him to give the robot a chance. Despite Betty's protests Jameson relents. Smythe gives Peter a glass ball containing a spider to Peter. The robot will detect the spider and trap it with tentacles. Peter realizes that Smythe is no crackpot but it's too late. The machine grabs him and holds on (as Peter's spider power is much greater than the tiny spider's). Smythe chalks it up to a glitch and lets him loose. Jameson is impressed and agrees to rent it. As he and Smythe go into his office to talk business Betty gives Peter an earful shaming him for betraying Spider-Man after he rescued her and Aunt May. At school Flash is bragging about his role in Mysterio's capture when he spots Liz running after Peter. Flash pulls Peter away and tells him that they're going to fight at the end of the day. Peter spends all day nervous and scared but not because of Flash, as his classmates think, but because he expects the robot to track him at any minute. The robot is actually being inspected and modified by Smythe, has rigged it up with a two-way video screen that will allow Jameson to see and communicate through the robot with his face being displayed on the machine. It gets set on the trail of Spider-Man. At the end of the school day Peter sees the robot coming up the street. He skips his fight with Flash and runs down the street. Flash and his gang chase after them but Peter turns a corner and leaps up onto a building. The robot is right on Flash's heels and Peter changes just in time. He runs, the robot follows and Flash decides they should all help Spidey instead. Spidey decides to face the robot in the middle of the street (so Jameson's humiliation will be as public as possible) but finds that his webbing doesn't stick to it. Spidey has no choice but to keep running. At the Bugle Betty tries to sabotage the machine but gets kicked out of Jameson's office. She tries to call Peter for help but the line is busy. She admits that even though she doesn't like Spider-Man or any other hero she does feel sorry for him. Unable to call Pete at home she heads out to see him in person. Meanwhile, Spidey has taken to the rooftops and left Flash unable to help. He decides to go confront Peter at home over his cowardice. In front of his house Liz and Betty bump into each other and exchange barbs. Aunt May tells them that Peter isn't home but they're welcomed inside. She introduces them to Mary-Jane Watson and while we can't see her face it's clear she has a bang-up body. Betty and Liz are both stunned by Peter keeping such a thing from them and leave. Flash's gang decides to give up on Peter and leave Flash waiting alone outside the house. Up on the rooftops the robot has finally captured Spidey. Trapped in its coils Spidey is helpless and Jameson decides to unmask him in person. Using a ridiculously large "portable finder" they head to the rooftop in a cab. When they get there they find Spidey in the machine's grasp... Or rather, his costume, puppeted via weblines. Spidey had been able to escape by accessing the front control panel. Peter sneaks a snapshot for his personal collection and considers it worth losing his costume. A short time later Peter returns home (Flash having been shooed away by a cop) and is surprised by Aunt holding his spare Spidey costume! Peter desperately tells her he isn't Spider-Man. Well duh, of course he's not Spider-Man, but Aunt May doesn't want him wearing a Spider-Man costume. He could get into serious trouble (she's got a point, just look at what happened to Flash Thompson, twice). He's relieved that his secret is safe but now he's stuck without a costume. Observations: Ditko's first credited plot is a real good one. The idea of Spidey facing a robot is a bit of a rehash of the Living Brain (including Spidey defeating it by simply turning it off) but it's a much stronger execution this time around. Jameson's vendetta continues to be compelling. His previous attempt at attacking Spider-Man involved creating his own personal Spider-Man, which backfired horribly. Now he's again making an attempt at unmasking Spider-Man (as he promised at the end of #20) but this time it's purely non-lethal, simply trapping Spidey rather than outright attacking him. This time the robot is made by Smythe, who would eventually go mad and become a robot-building supervillain responsible for the Spider Slayers. Peter's relationship with Betty continues to have troubles. Thankfully, this time Betty is acting quite reasonable. Rather than being upset about Peter cheating on her (if such a concept even exists in this universe) she is mad at him for betraying Spider-Man. So she's not perceiving a personal betrayal but rather being disgusted by what she sees as Peter's lack of honor, as he should admire any hero who rescues his Aunt May. Peter is naturally oblivious to this until it's too late and it's a nice bit of drama as Peter can't explain himself without revealing his identity. The other big news here is the first onscreen appearance of Mary Jane. While she nicely shuts down both Liz and Betty, I'm a bit disappointed that the eventual "You just hit the jackpot" twist got spoiled so early. Of course, that reveal wasn't planned yet and the artist who made it brilliant (and single-handedly made Mary Jane the #1 love interest) was still working at DC and hadn't yet been tricked back into the Marvel fold by Stan. Overall it's a fun issue and Ditko's run as credited plotter starts off with a bang. 4/5Other notes: - First issue where Ditko is credited for his plotting, something he fought for. In this case he appears in the credits as merely the illustrator and his plotting is announced in a special notice. - Second appearance of Norman Osborn - There are a few continuity errors. The first is Peter getting his spider signal when last issue he had mentioned that he'd already done so. The second is with regards to the timeframe. This issue picks up no more than a few hours after the last one but Flash refers to the Mysterio incident as having happened a few weeks prior. Even more confusing confusing, dialog earlier in the issue mentions that he threw the spider signal the previous day!
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Post by Ozymandias on Mar 14, 2015 17:58:34 GMT
I think Mysterio's scheme in this one is much more interesting since it proves Mysterio has worth beyond trapping Spidey in a smoke cloud or jumping high with springs. In his first appearance it's a neat gimmick but it's still a gimmick. This story has Mysterio working just with his brain. It also plays up the psych angle from that issue. In #13 Peter believes he's sleepwebbing. Here the psychological angle is pushed much stronger and is more effective (the first real clue to Rinehart's identity is Spidey referencing his last mental illness episode). The plot is more elaborate, but the visual design of Mysterio offsets that advantage, IMO. It doesn't make a huge difference, but the story in #13 wasn't much behind this one anyway. Oh, and I forgot to mention that "portable" microphone, the reporter was using in page 6. That's what 50 years of real life tech will do for you!
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Post by Ozymandias on Mar 14, 2015 18:01:10 GMT
This time the robot is made by Smythe, who would eventually go mad and become a robot-building supervillain responsible for the Spider Slayers. - Second appearance of Norman Osborn - There are a few continuity errors. The first is Peter getting his spider signal when last issue he had mentioned that he'd already done so. The second is with regards to the timeframe. This issue picks up no more than a few hours after the last one but Flash refers to the Mysterio incident as having happened a few weeks prior. Even more confusing confusing, dialog earlier in the issue mentions that he threw the spider signal the previous day! Not all of them though, the deceased Mrs. Jameson was introduced as a Spider Slayer builder. Also, Smythe's son would eventually take on the mantle. And yet, the spider sense doesn't tingle, quite some reliable power you got working there, Petey. I was totally oblivious to these early cameos, they look more like an inside joke than anything else. Of the mistakes you mention, the first one really irritated me. My only real beef with this issue is the ending. That bit were Peter, is able to trick his audience, into thinking they were actually seeing Spider-Man wrestle the robot, when it was just him playing puppet master, is less credible than his wall crawling.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on Mar 15, 2015 0:19:24 GMT
The Amazing Spider-Man #26 (July 1965) "The Man In The Crime-Master's Mask!" Script: Stan Lee Plot: Steve Ditko Art: Steve Ditko Letters: Sam Rosen Cover: Steve Ditko Summary: After hours in the Parker house, Peter snoops through every trash can and cupboard in the house but has no luck finding his costume. The only place it could be is in Aunt May's room but he can't get in there until morning. He wonders what Jameson did with his other costume and falls asleep. On a pier the Green Goblin is meeting with a masked man calling himself the Crime-Master. They had made a deal to work together to take over the city's underworld but the Crime-Master is backing out, even though they'd shown each other their identities. Gobby declares war on him. The Crime-Master throws a message in the window of a mob hideout, a warning to relinquish their rackets to the Crime Master. Elsewhere, a gangster is woken up in bed with a phone call. The Crime-Master tells him to look out his window, where is car explodes. The Crime-Master tells the stunned gangster that he's taking over. Word of the Crime-Master quickly spreads around the city's underworld. As dawn breaks Foswell changes out of his "working clothes," which he stashed in a secret compartment in his closet, and gets ready for work. Elsewhere, Peter tries to find out from Aunt May where his costume is being kept but she doesn't even want to discuss it. At the Bugle Betty is still mad at him for turning on Spider-Man and they have a very loud argument about Spider-Man, Ned Leeds, Liz Allan and Mary Jane. Jonah busts out and tells Peter to scram. He tells Foswell that he wants him to do a feature story on the Goblin and the Crime-Master, since he's been building the file on the pair. Peter slips a tracer into Foswell's hat to keep an eye on him. At school Flash makes fun of Peter's cowardice from last issue and Peter, already pushed to his limit, tackles him. He fights Flash's entire gang until Liz manages to pull them apart. She tells them she's through with both of them and leaves. To make matters worse, Principal Davis saw Peter attack Flash out his window and wants to see him in his office. Flash's friends excitedly wonder if Peter will get expelled and Flash tells them he's going to try and make things right with Liz. In reality he's gone to meet with Principal Davis and tell him what really happened. The Crime-Master busts in on a mob hideout. He shoots their boss and beats up the rest to make an example of them, as they had defied his warnings. Across town, one of Jameson's buddies asks how he can afford to take time away from his paper when the Crime-Master story is still developing. Jameson says he relies on his staff and his inside information. His horribly-haired buddy asks him if he's wise to trust Foswell, a notorious criminal. Jameson says that he's all heart and besides, Foswell works like a dog. With no other options, Peter has been forced to buy a one-size-fits-all Spidey costume from a costume shop. It doesn't fit particularly well and needs to be webbed together. As he approaches Foswell's apartment the Goblin flies past, neither party noticing the other. Spidey sneaks in through the window and finds Foswell's clothes and hat but no Foswell. Outside, the Crime-Master has come to the apartment and sees the light in the window. Someone is inside! Deciding he will always be a threat, he fires his gun into the window. Spider sense saves our hero and he leaps out after his attacker. He is able to dodge all six shots but the Crime-Master hits him with gas. The gas numbs Spidey and the Crime-Master punches him off the building. The Crime-Master turns away triumphant while Spidey pulls off his mask to get some air. He throws out a webline and saves himself then heads up to the roof again but the Crime-Master is gone. Spidey heads over to the Bugle to see if Foswell is in but he only finds Betty reading another letter from Ned. He takes the opportunity to search Jameson's office for his costume but no luck. When Jameson finds him he asks for it and Jameson tells him that Smythe took it. Spidey knows where Smythe lives and makes a mental note to find him. He heads back to Foswell's apartment for another look around. He notices that his calendar features a waterfront scene and has a specific location marked. He decides to investigate. The underworld leaders agree that one of them should meet the Crime-Master and here is proposition. At that meeting the Crime-Master tells the crook that he'll hold a meeting at the spot marked on Foswell's calendar. Later, a stool pigeon named Patch tells the police about the meeting. The police chief tells his men to watch the situation and gather evidence, as none of the bosses have officially committed a crime. At the waterfront Spidey watches the mob bosses file into the warehouse, not realizing that on a nearby rooftop the Goblin is confronting the Crime-Master. He's pissed that the Crime-Master has cut him out of his own scheme and while he can't kill him (as the Crime-Master has the Goblin's identity stashed in a secret deposit box that will be discovered if he dies) he does have other options. The Goblin spots Spider-Man lurking amongst the rooftops and quickly slams his glider straight down on him to stun him before knocking him unconscious with a pumpkin bomb. He tries to unmask Spidey but he can't, as Spidey has webbed his mask to his shirt (because it kept slipping). The Crime-Master arrives at the warehouse and starts his meeting but the Goblin shows up with his ace in the hole: Spider-Man. Observations: As good as the last two issues were, they have nothing on this. The Green Goblin continues to try and take over the crime rackets. While last time he relied on the police for assistance, here he gets in bed with the mysterious Crime-Master to try and take over together (with eventually betrayal obviously being his goal). The Goblin proves to be less effective as he was last time, as he is quickly betrayed and made a bit of a chump initially. That changes at the end where he finally defeats Spider-Man and quickly moves up near the top of the heap in terms of villainy goes. By this point he still hasn't really committed any crime. Yes he's conspired to take over the rackets and yes he's tried to take on Spider-Man but so far he hasn't killed anyone, robbed a bank, taken over a nuclear facility, etc. He's stuck to the background, playing his cards carefully which makes him a more lethal and calculating villain. His secret identity actually factors into the plot (with his alter ego making another appearance) and by this point the mystery angle is really played up. Who is the Goblin? Who is the Crime-Master? Is Foswell one of them? Foswell has a pretty major secret in this issue and it's a really exciting mystery. Peter continues to prove to be an unconventional hero, having lost both of his costumes and being forced to buy a costume-shop duplicate! The costume fitting poorly was a nice touch and also gave an explanation for Spidey being captured without being unmasked (nice to Ditko to actually take that into consideration). The spider tracer receiver continues to show up when Peter uses it but now it's revealed to be kept on his belt under his costume rather than hung around his neck, which justifies its absence from the artwork. Peter's turbulent relationship with Betty Brant hits a new low as they publicly argue about everything that has been bothering them: Peter seeing Liz Allan and Mary Jane behind her back, Betty showing more concern for Ned Leeds and Spider-Man than she does Peter. It's ugly and long overdue. The couple haven't had a real argument before and it could either save them or ruin them. Overall this issue is a classic. It has a moody, almost noir-ish vibe, a great mystery and a killer cliffhanger ending. 5/5Other notes: - The Green Goblin makes his fourth, the first villain to make do so (unless you count cameos and Mysterio's holograms). - This issue appears to take place almost immediately after the last, as it's unlikely that Peter would only begin searching for his costume a month after it was confiscated. With the next issue obviously following up on this one immediately that means we have four months worth of stories covering only a few days. This is important, as it means Ned Leeds is only four months into his six month trip despite having been gone for six months in real time. - In today's age of zero tolerance it's likely both Flash and Peter would have been expelled for their fight. Peter being excused from attacking Flash just because he was being teased is unheard of. - Third appearance of Norman Osborn with his first line of dialog. He specifically asks about Foswell which is pretty interesting. Foswell is currently the lead suspect in the Crime-Master mystery and to modern eyes it looks as if the Goblin is asking about the rival. Of course, in 1965 nobody suspected this guy of being the Green Goblin so that connection wasn't made but Norman's interest in Foswell is interesting anyway, as the Goblin previously provided information to Foswell. - The costume Peter buys is made of one of those "new stretch fabrics." He is probably referring to spandex, which first appeared on the market in 1962. - This is the first cliffhanger ending of the entire series.
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Post by Ozymandias on Mar 15, 2015 7:43:21 GMT
The spider tracer reciever continues to show up when Peter uses it but now it's revealed to be kept on his belt under his costume rather than hung around his neck, which justifies its absence from the artwork. - Third appearance of Norman Osborn with his first line of dialog. Even if it were under his costume, we would still be able to notice, it was quite bulky. In the last panel of page 9, he's webbing his waist, to hold the costume in place, and the receiver is seen over the costume. The fact that it disappears from panel to panel, might give the impression it's hidden, but we already addressed this issue. If you have the original printing, could you post that panel? In my copy of Marvel Tales, the guy has black hair. Lee and Ditko continue at their peak. I subscribe every compliment made by the OP.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on Mar 15, 2015 15:45:34 GMT
The Amazing Spider-Man #27 (August 1965) "Bring Back My Goblin To Me!" Script: Stan Lee Editor: Stan Lee Plot: Steve Ditko Art: Steve Ditko Letters: Artie Simek Gift Wrapper: Artie Simek Cover: Steve Ditko Summary: Having captured Spider-Man the Green Goblin is about sway the crowd away from the Crime-Master. They chain Spidey up and prepare to execute him when he regains consciousness and fights back. The police take this as their cue to bust in and start delivering wood shampoos. Spidey breaks free of his chains and discreetly sets up his automatic camera on a rafter before going back to help the cops clean up the mess. Gobby takes to the sky while Crime-Master sneaks out through a hatch in the floor. Spidey chooses to chase the Crime-Master as he has no hope of catching up the glider. Spidey tails the Crime-Master underneath the warehouse and into a sewer pipe. But Crime-Master is able to spray some gas and escape while Spidey webs himself up an improvised gas mask. Spidey climbs up out of a manhole and decides to go after Foswell. He searches the apartment for the third time and finds that Foswell has been home, as the hat is now gone and the spider tracer is on the floor. Spidey discovers the hidden compartment in the closet but no other clues and goes looking for him at Jameson's office, not realizing the Crime-Master is lurking outside the apartment. He confronts Jameson about Foswell, saying that he's either the Green Goblin or the Crime-Master. Jameson doesn't believe it and calls Foswell into his office. Spidey interrogates Foswell about his other activities as the Crime-Master puts him, Foswell and Jonah in his gunsights from the across the street. Theres a standoff and the cops shoot him. He dies on the rooftop before he can reveal the Goblin's identity. Foswell knows it's the Crime-Master, as he's been investigating him. The police show up and thank Foswell for his help. Foswell used his knowledge from his days as the Big Man to deduce the Crime-Master's identity: Nick "Lucky" Lewis. Aka, nobody Spidey has ever seen before. Spidey apologizes to Foswell for his mistake and Foswell accepts it. Jonah then orders the cop to arrest Spidey but there is no order for his arrest and the cop is grateful for Spidey's help. Jonah swears to make a laughing stock of him regardless. Spidey swings back to the pier to find his camera but it's not there. His spider sense detects someone else and he tries to hide under the pier but trips on some rotting wood and takes a bath. It's just some kids who have his camera. He gets them to pass it and he tells them that they shouldn't expect an autograph (they don't want one since they're Torch fans). The water makes the costume start to shrink and Peter barely manages to pull it off. In his home darkroom he develops the photos and realizes that he doesn't have to sell them to Jonah. After all, there are other newspapers in the city. He goes to the Daily Globe and meets with Barney Bushkin, a very jolly fellow. Bushkin loves the photos but asks too many questions for Peter's liking. He decides that from now on Jonah gets his photos. At the gentleman's club Jonah is bragging about his role in the Crime-Master's arrest. Foswell was just a cog in the wheel, it was Jonah who orchestrated the whole thing. His wavy-haired friend shows him the photos in the Globe. Jonah says he turned the photos down but really he'd have given anything for them and resolves to be kinder to Peter. Alone at home Peter searches Aunt May's room for the costume but can't find it. He resigns himself to sewing a new one. When Aunt May gets back from her walk Peter notices that she's rather lonely so they go see a movie. At his office Foswell pulls a bundle from under his desk. It's his disguise: Foswell is Patch the informant! Elsewhere, the Green Goblin rages about Spider-Man foiling his plans once more and swears revenge, although he has the sense to lay low until he's forgotten before striking once more. After their movie Aunt May and Peter are walking home. May loves movies that make her cry while Peter loves action movies. May tells him that it isn't healthy for a boy like him to have too much excitement. Observations: This issue is really in two parts: Resolving the cliffhanger with a big action scene and tying up the loose ends of the mystery. The action is really good. Spidey spends much of the fight bound and spends the rest of it fighting alongside the police. Seeing Spidey fight alongside the boys in blue feels like a big moment in terms of his reputation and public standing. Remember, at the start of the series he was wanted by the FBI. Now he fights with the cops and is appreciated for it. The big event is the resolution of the mystery. In a way it's disappointing. The Goblin's identity remains a mystery (what happened to the Crime-Master keeping it in a safe deposit box to be released upon his death?) while the Crime-Master turns out to be completely anonymous. Spidey notes the realism of not always knowing who the suspect is (which was first brought up in ASM #9 when he unmasked Electro). But Foswell's secret is worth the anti-climax. He's Patch the stool pigeon and I don't think anyone saw that coming. It's nice to see the character has genuinely reformed and doesn't want to be a two-time loser like the other villains. We don't get any Betty Brant drama this issue but what we do get is a nice scene of Peter and Aunt May going out together. With Peter lying to her as much as he has been and her recent medical troubles it's nice to see them spending time together and enjoying each other's company. Overall it's an interesting and imaginative resolution to what is the greatest mystery story yet. 5/5Other notes: - First appearance of Barney Bushkin, who was dug up a decade later by Bill Mantlo and even later became a supporting character in this very series. - Fourth unofficial appearance of Norman Osborn. - This is the final Steve Ditko Green Goblin story. - Stan's ego seems to have gotten the better of him, because in addition to crediting Steve as the plotter he credits himself as editor. I wonder if this is what led to every person in the production crew getting a credit. - Spider-Man turns three!
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Post by Ozymandias on Mar 15, 2015 18:31:48 GMT
The Goblin's identity remains a mystery (what happened to the Crime-Master keeping it in a safe deposit box to be released upon his death?) while the Crime-Master turns out to be completely anonymous. - First appearance of Barney Bushkin, who was dug up a decade later by Bill Mantlo and even later became a supporting character in this very series. - Fourth unofficial appearance of Norman Osborn. I also wonder what that was about. Maybe he was bluffing? He knew they were in a stalemate, but following that course of action, with a safe deposit box, was a sound plan. Maybe he just thought about it at that moment, in the heath of the discussion, but didn't finally got to implementing it. I know, it's weak. I'm just trying to defend, what's probably the best plot of the Lee-Ditko era. Curiously enough, he was reintroduced as a supporting character for ASM, in Fantastic Four #207. No argument this time, even in Marvel Tales #165, you can clearly see it's him.
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Post by Ozymandias on Mar 15, 2015 18:38:17 GMT
The whole "we'd see it under his costume" also applies to his belt, camera, signal and webshooters. Heres that panel scanned from the 2013 edition of the omnibus: Excuse the low quality, it was a pain holding the book on my flatbed. The belt was specifically supposed to fit under the clothes, that included the signal. The camera was at first held in his hands, and it got eventually replaced by a miniaturized one. The design of the web shooters is also flat, which shouldn't be much problem around the wrists. The receiver on the other hand, is still seen here as a big device, outside the costume. There's no explicit plan, to make it smaller or thiner, it simply disappears out of sight. I wanted to see the color of his hair in the original print, reprints change coloring many times. Honestly, the last two "Osborn sightings" present a character, with little resemblance to the standard representation, we're used to. In #23 the hair, at least, was a match both in color and shape. There is some strong circumstantial evidence, but I'd have trouble making a positive identification, in issues 25 and 26.
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Post by Ozymandias on Mar 15, 2015 18:40:14 GMT
The camera, as seen now, is still a fairly large square. Ditko's art shows no indication of the camera under his costume. Same goes for the webshooters. There would be some bulging at the wrists. So for now I'm willing to buy that the receiver clips onto the belt somewhere. As for Osborn, my scan doesn't show it but he has the exact same hair. It's drawn with the weird center-parted cornrows (clearly visible in the enlarged art featured in the digitally printed omnibus) and is the same color (which is completely accurate to the original colors used in the issues, as is the case in all Cory Sedlmeier-edited books). Facial likeness is also similar with squinty eyes and a squared chin. It's clearly the same guy, with the same hair and the same association with Jameson, from issue to issue and when Osborn is eventually introduced he has the same hair, the same face and is immediately established as being a friend of Jameson's from their executives club. So what makes more sense, that Ditko had previously featured a man with red cornrows at Jameson's club and later introduced another member of Jameson's club with the same haircut but who wasn't the guy seen earlier or that Ditko was thinking ahead and put Osborn in these club scenes. The latter is the only option that makes sense and if Ditko's own word isn't good enough then I don't know what is. Where do you see that large-square camera? In issue 26? Yes, anything under the costume should show, but just the same way genitals are ignored for aesthetic purposes, the rest of his equipment is supposed to be there, even though we don't see any sign of it. In ASM #2, when his belt was introduced, they made an effort to explain how it would fit under his clothes undetected, and how he had the intention of investing in a miniaturized camera, that could be attached to it. We have to believe that all those components can be disguised, even though the costume is so tight. No such effort was made in reference to the receiver, which we've always seen him carry around his neck, in his hands, or at the waist over the costume. I wanted to see a good pic of his hair, because in the reprint I have, the color they used practically washes over the inks. I can't identify neither the color, nor the hairstyle. If you say that in the Omnibus, he has the same hair, and that the colors of that reprint are a match for those in ASM, that's good enough for me. Watching Marvel Tales #21 and #176, side by side, I still can't say the face belongs to the same guy, but his hair was peculiar enough to make a positive identification, even if the faces don't look alike. Thanks for the info.
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