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Post by Ozymandias on Jul 7, 2014 17:36:39 GMT
In the long run, there's not much doubt about who to choose between SpOck and Parker, but what about the short run? I must admit that the best moment so far, in the new ASM, was when Peter was pretending to still be under Otto's control. Superior sure was fun, as for Amazing… the last story arc to pick my interest was Alpha. I'm aware this isn't high in most people's rankings, but nevertheless.
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Post by oldschool on Jul 9, 2014 17:55:13 GMT
Wow....great idea for a thread BUT we could not disagree more about "Alpha". I thought that was one of Slott's very rare stinkers in his long tenure on the title. Overall, I think Superior was an absolute blast that barely slowed down as it barreled through it's 31 issues (plus satellite titles and other appearances) and I would say the "Dying Wish" arc from ASM #298-300 were just as good. Having said that, I also think most(though not all) of Slott's run since being named sole writer has been at least very good and usually great. But, IMO, his Superior run was an absolute home run and made more impressive by the fact that it was a journey laden with pitfalls and could have just as easily deteriorated quickly under a lesser writer's pen.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jul 10, 2014 6:04:47 GMT
Wow....great idea for a thread BUT we could not disagree more about "Alpha". I thought that was one of Slott's very rare stinkers in his long tenure on the title. Overall, I think Superior was an absolute blast that barely slowed down as it barreled through it's 31 issues (plus satellite titles and other appearances) and I would say the "Dying Wish" arc from ASM #298-300 were just as good. Having said that, I also think most(though not all) of Slott's run since being named sole writer has been at least very good and usually great. But, IMO, his Superior run was an absolute home run and made more impressive by the fact that it was a journey laden with pitfalls and could have just as easily deteriorated quickly under a lesser writer's pen. I consider Dying Wish, as part of the Superior run, so there's only two story arcs, between Alpha and the present moment. As for Alpha itself, I thoroughly enjoyed it, kind of a different character; not a hero, not a villain, just a spoiled brat who acquired too much, too fast. If anything, I regret Slott running the story trough its course, too quickly. I hope he'll take a new swing at him.
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Post by oldschool on Jul 10, 2014 14:29:05 GMT
I thought the Alpha mini from last year was actually pretty enjoyable; not ground-breaking mind you, but quite a bit of fun and more in line with what I thought Slott was trying to get at with the character. Unfortunately, I found Slott's initial story a bit too ham-fisted and also suffered from the pre-hype.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jul 10, 2014 20:29:48 GMT
I thought the Alpha mini from last year was actually pretty enjoyable; not ground-breaking mind you, but quite a bit of fun and more in line with what I thought Slott was trying to get at with the character. Unfortunately, I found Slott's initial story a bit too ham-fisted and also suffered from the pre-hype. I guess you're talking about Alpha: Big Time; I can't say I've read that, in fact, I don't even know the authors, at all. Hard for me to compare both works, then. About the hype preceding Alpha, I'm also unaware of any. It happens frequently, that positive or negative reports about something, enhance our opinion, when is contrary to what we previously heard. There could be a little bit of this phenomenon, at play. About the topic of the thread, I get the impression you also liked Superior more than Amazing, under Slott's rein. For me, it was a pleasant reading experience, I burnt through all 31 issues, in just one day. As I stated in the old CBR forums, the premise was kind of silly, but once you got past that, it was fun. Otto impersonating Peter, provided many comical situations.
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Post by oldschool on Jul 11, 2014 16:48:40 GMT
Yes, I was referring to the Alpha:Big Time mini; I too was unaware of the creators but thought both the scripting are art was strong (turns out both creators are well-regarded though they have mostly worked on secondary titles). There was quite a bit of hype prior to Alpha appearing in the first of many 50th anniversary issues for ASM, this one appearing in August 2012; the solicits promised a huge, life-changing experience for Peter that would eventually pave the way for ASM #700 etc etc etc. None of that was true of course and, in hindsight, I wonder if part of the plan with Alpha was to set him up as a red herring for being the one to replace Peter in Superior. Sounds silly now but Slott was seeding his stories with quite a few possibilities for the "new" Spidey as it had been "leaked" that Peter's time as Spidey would come to an end at the end of 2012.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jul 12, 2014 7:26:52 GMT
Yes, I was referring to the Alpha:Big Time mini; I too was unaware of the creators but thought both the scripting are art was strong (turns out both creators are well-regarded though they have mostly worked on secondary titles). There was quite a bit of hype prior to Alpha appearing in the first of many 50th anniversary issues for ASM, this one appearing in August 2012; the solicits promised a huge, life-changing experience for Peter that would eventually pave the way for ASM #700 etc etc etc. None of that was true of course and, in hindsight, I wonder if part of the plan with Alpha was to set him up as a red herring for being the one to replace Peter in Superior. Sounds silly now but Slott was seeding his stories with quite a few possibilities for the "new" Spidey as it had been "leaked" that Peter's time as Spidey would come to an end at the end of 2012. I guess you're more adventurous than I am. If something isn't known to me, via previous experience with the authors, or word of mouth, I don't usually risk it. Experience isn't always a good thing, you know, and time has provided too many deceptions, even when reading new material from known writers. Anyway, I'll keep it in the checklist and I'll get back to you on that at some point. So you paid attention to the Don Drapers of the world, well there you have it. I said it more than a year ago, almost as soon as I landed on the CBR forum, people trying to sell you something aren't to be trusted. At the time, there was still the notion, going around, that Superior was a definitive thing. Marvel was often cited as proof of that, I never believed it. In the end, it all boils down to sales, and no one can predict if a concept will keep selling, ergo saying that you're going to stick with is some sort of lie. This principle applies, to everything and anything someone in the industry could say, about what they're currently working on. The only time when you can expect some truth from them is when they're out the door with a grudge, they will be subjective statements, but at least you'll get to hear some truths among the rants. As for Slott playing hide and seek with Alpha, to derail attention from Otto, it could very well be the case, and that's not something bad. Writers, after all, are liars.
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Post by spiderman62 on Jul 23, 2014 13:55:51 GMT
Well, I've never liked even the idea of Superior, so I'll have to pick Amazing Spider-Man over Superior Spider-Man.
I personally never liked Alpha, infact I wanted Spider-Man to kick his ass but unfortunately for me that never happened.
At least with Amazing Spider-Man, Dan has had some good ideas and stories.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jul 23, 2014 21:46:19 GMT
The idea itself was ridiculous. B-series plot at best. But if you were willing to accept it, there was some fun to be had.
As for Alpha, a lot of people disliked it, but if it's the character what displeased them, then kudos to Slott, because that's what he wanted to create, an unlikeable character. Probably his best attempt at characterization.
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Post by spiderman62 on Jul 24, 2014 14:33:16 GMT
Well I did dislike the character a lot so yes, kudos to Slott for that but I also disliked the ''Parker Particles'' thing which Peter ''invented'' only to discover later on that Reed discovered them years earlier but stopped using them (would've been helpful if he made that public knowledge).
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Post by Ozymandias on Jul 24, 2014 14:49:26 GMT
Well I did dislike the character a lot so yes, kudos to Slott for that but I also disliked the ''Parker Particles'' thing which Peter ''invented'' only to discover later on that Reed discovered them years earlier but stopped using them (would've been helpful if he made that public knowledge). Well spotted, something as important as that discovery, and we had never heard of him working on it? That's sloppy plotting, a more valid reason, not to give the trilogy a good rating, than most arguments I read against it,
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Post by spiderman62 on Jul 28, 2014 18:44:13 GMT
Well I did dislike the character a lot so yes, kudos to Slott for that but I also disliked the ''Parker Particles'' thing which Peter ''invented'' only to discover later on that Reed discovered them years earlier but stopped using them (would've been helpful if he made that public knowledge). Well spotted, something as important as that discovery, and we had never heard of him working on it? That's sloppy plotting, a more valid reason, not to give the trilogy a good rating, than most arguments I read against it, Thank you Ozy.
You know it's sloppy plotting when I notice it
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Post by darthfury78 on Oct 1, 2014 16:50:51 GMT
The idea itself was ridiculous. B-series plot at best. But if you were willing to accept it, there was some fun to be had. As for Alpha, a lot of people disliked it, but if it's the character what displeased them, then kudos to Slott, because that's what he wanted to create, an unlikeable character. Probably his best attempt at characterization. This is the same thing that Slott's doing with the Black Cat, which is making her into a unlikable villain. And the idea of making the Black Cat into an A-List villain will only backfire on him. From what I have gathered, the new Black Cat has not been well received at all. Currently, the plan by Marvel to move the Black Cat around the Marvel Universe will only make things worse for the character, just like Alpha. I think that Marvel has made a very bad mistake in allowing Slott to make Black Cat into a villain. This is why Black Cat's role as a villain will be short lived because there's nothing to really support it the change of her character other than the fact that Dan Slott doesn't like the character. In that case, he should have left the Black Cat alone to another writer who wants to use her an anti-hero, like Silver Sable(before Slott killed her off)...
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Post by Ozymandias on Oct 1, 2014 18:32:55 GMT
I've read somewhere that the initial plan was for the Black Cat to die, instead of Silver Sable. Denied that option, Slott is doing the next best thing.
As for Alpha being a similar case… both characters are disliked, but one was a new character, while the other has basically been rewritten. The lack of a good reason for that change is what makes her a bad character. Alpha was, on the other hand, was a good character; a jerk, but a believable jerk.
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Post by darthfury78 on Oct 1, 2014 20:40:25 GMT
I've read somewhere that the initial plan was for the Black Cat to die, instead of Silver Sable. Denied that option, Slott is doing the next best thing. As for Alpha being a similar case… both characters are disliked, but one was a new character, while the other has basically been rewritten. The lack of a good reason for that change is what makes her a bad character. Alpha was, on the other hand, was a good character; a jerk, but a believable jerk. Ends of the Earth was to have featured Black Cat and Agent Venom. But neither one was available to use. Thus Slott used Silver Sable and Black Widow, which I was glad he did because it changed the whole dynamic of the story, as well as reveal Silver Sable's feelings for Spider-Man, along with a renewed interest by the Black Widow, who had team-up with Spider-Man in the past. The most memorable team-up between Spider-Man x Black Widow are in Marvel Team-Up #82 thru #85. I never understood the lack of interest of using Black Widow(by past Spider-Writers) as a frequent guest in Spider-Man's world. It too bad that Slott would rather create forgettable characters than to use his past experiences with the She-Hulk by bringing in a few super heroines as alternates to the Black Cat if he wasn't interested in using her. No one would have argued with him on allowing another writer to use her as she was(as they had done with Silver Sable, who have not appeared in Spider-Man's in over a decade prior to her return for the End of the Earth event). To make her into a villain out of spite for the character will make the Black Cat's character hard for any other writer to use for fear of getting blacklash by the readers until her former anti-hero status is restored...
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