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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 11, 2015 15:58:29 GMT
Ok - he has female helper who was working with a virus from Stromm's notes (dead) or Curt Conners work (stolen or copied) - It could be a generic that rewrites DNA, and activated only by adding a catalyst with source DNA before appliciation/injection. Norman's injects her with it when her back is turned or by force. They know through prior testing that it kind of works. It's supposed to be a (temporary?) appearance changer (w/ the potential to cure defects?). This early version sort of works, in that it looks like the person - but either leaves the target essentially "blank" (their memories over written) or knocks her out (and she dies exactly as portrayed in 121). Becasue it's rewriting to the original specs - not growing from cells into a person (with all the variables that entails) - the fingerprints actually do match, as shown in 144. She wouldn't wouldn't dissolve and they would look alive. Leaving Warren free not to be involved, so no direct first hand knowledge of what happened to the helper or that Gwen is alive. Osborn may send him these notes and some samples later, which aids his own work, but he, of coarse, fails to credit the source. […] OMD..Flippant remark. Harry came back from the dead during that. Gwen didn't, even though the world kind of reset. If she's still alive - she couldn't comeback. She's still out there someplace...either bubbling away in a tank or in hiding. Mephisto would know this and ask for the one real thing (apparently other than demon magic) that could get between MJ and PP. Heh .. that story stucked lol I think that's more contrived that it needs to be. I already tackled the fingerprints issue, easily fixed. The dissolving defect could be overcome, with a different cloning method, to the one later used by Warren. As you said, Norman doesn't need a fully operational clone, so maybe his assistant developed a way to make lasting, but inert, clones. OMD, yeah that was kind of lame. It did look like a reset, but every little change had actually its own little explanation; in Harry's case, check ASM #581.
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Post by vixx on Jun 11, 2015 17:15:40 GMT
True - it's tough to have a complete story that doesn't tear a hole in all the other ones, bring up the clone saga or change the randomness of missing Spiderman but grabbing Gwen. Like the bugging the house idea - but that could be creepy too .. lot of single guy schenanigans for dad to listen in on Can it be thinned out? Are clones officially now modified people? Missed the fingerprint solve - Also, one note: If Gwen is stashed at the warehouse, in stasis, coming out of it or awake, and remains conscious - she would hear Peter confirm Norman is dead, call Harry the Goblin and Harry call Spiderman Peter Parker. Could corroborate whatever she suspected and Norman told her - and give her a reason to run.
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Post by vixx on Jun 11, 2015 18:11:22 GMT
Revised:
Norman has a female scientist at OsCorp. working on a project detailed in Stromm's Journal - A inert virus that rewrites a hosts "malfuctioning" cells into healthy ones. It's activated only by adding a catalyst with healthy source DNA. Through testing, it is known to work, but has a serious flaw; it fails to target a specific area, instead "overwriting someone completely" with the new DNA. After she gets the call and shows up to the warehouse to discuss a "breakthrough", Norman's injects her. It works as expected, but leaves her "blank" (her memory is over written too) and unconscious. (He could have already done this in advance, if he knows Gwen is the kidnap target, which won't introduce any form of rapid induction)
Continuity notes: Stromm is the source of the tech, and dead, so no new lose ends. The female helper is a backstory and innocent, so Norman still escalates to murder in 121. The virus has been described as how Warren made his clones, this is an early version. Fingerprints match, like in 123, and 144, as Jackal and Norman use the same process. Memory issue is a defect that can be worked on later by Warren, unconscious matches the state in 121. Being a real person, she wouldn't dissolve, and would remain a corpse, even years later from 145.
Later:
Warren unaware of earlier events, mourns Gwen. Osborn (perhaps anonymously) sends him Stromm's notes and some samples later, to aid his own work in the field, but he, predictably, fails to credit Stromm. This advances Warren's work rapidly, streamlining what remains; and explains how he was able to get so far in just two years - he fixes the memory problem, but introduces minor stability issues.
Norman may even influence Warren's choice of Gwen as a test subject, suspecting Warren had a thing for Gwen and that he would get overly attached by spending so much time in the lab working on her, losing her repetitively through the failed experiments.
Continuity notes: Warren is the obvious choice, but has to stay out of it completely. With the new compressed timelines, he'd be going from frog to human very fast without help. So the tech has to come from someplace. Stromm is a good choice, as he's already dead and Norman would have access to his stuff. This could hook into Warren's and Norman's relationship and provide a good reason why both the clones Norman & Warren make are so similar and convincing, why they match each other in 145 and occur so close together. Also can make a dashed line to the Clone saga. Seems odd if they both choose the same girl to fixate on independently, and Norman is the mastermind ... he may be also interested in creating kids, cloning himself or something to extend his line.
This the assistant being female ties into "the one's girls life comment..." .. he didn't say "your girlfriend's life" or "Gwen's life"
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 11, 2015 18:28:07 GMT
Like the bugging the house idea - but that could be creepy too .. lot of single guy schenanigans for dad to listen in on Can it be thinned out? Are clones officially now modified people? Missed the fingerprint solve - Also, one note: If Gwen is stashed at the warehouse, in stasis, coming out of it or awake, and remains conscious - she would hear Peter confirm Norman is dead, call Harry the Goblin and Harry call Spiderman Peter Parker. Could corroborate whatever she suspected and Norman told her - and give her a reason to run. It was just an idea. If he calls his assistant, to prepare the Gwen clone, he's clearly targeting her, so maybe he went to Peter's pad looking for her, after all, where else would he try to find her? I get the impression you didn't read the other threads… Norman would fake the coroners report, to include Joyce's fingerprints. As for clones, there's also a specific thread about them Gwen in stasis means she's out of the story, completely. She doesn't hear anything or awakens at any time. The lab would be a completely different facility, BTW.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 11, 2015 18:44:45 GMT
Revised:Norman has a female scientist at OsCorp. working on a project detailed in Stromm's Journal - A inert virus that rewrites a hosts "malfuctioning" cells into healthy ones. It's activated only by adding a catalyst with healthy source DNA. Through testing, it is known to work, but has a serious flaw; it fails to target a specific area, instead "overwriting someone completely" with the new DNA. After she gets the call and shows up to the warehouse to discuss a "breakthrough", Norman's injects her. It works as expected, but leaves her "blank" (her memory is over written too) and unconscious. (He could have already done this in advance, if he knows Gwen is the kidnap target, which won't introduce any form of rapid induction)Continuity notes: Stromm is the source of the tech, and dead, so no new lose ends. The female helper is a backstory and innocent, so Norman still escalates to murder in 121. The virus has been described as how Warren made his clones, this is an early version. Fingerprints match, like in 123, and 144, as Jackal and Norman use the same process. Memory issue is a defect that can be worked on later by Warren, unconscious matches the state in 121. Being a real person, she wouldn't dissolve, and would remain a corpse, even years later from 145. Later:Warren was not to be involved earlier, and mourns Gwen. Osborn (perhaps anonymously) sends him Stromm's notes and some samples later, to aid his own work in the field, but he, predictably, fails to credit Stromm. This advances Warren's work rapidly, streamlining what remains; and explains how he was able to get so far in just two years - he fixes the memory problem, but introduces minor stability issues. Norman may even influence Warren's choice of Gwen as a test subject, suspecting Warren had a thing for Gwen and that he would get overly attached by spending so much time in the lab working on her, losing her repetitively through the failed experiments. Continuity notes: Warren is the obvious choice, but has to stay out of it completely. With the new compressed timelines, he'd be going from frog to human very fast without help. So the tech has to come from someplace. Stromm is a good choice, as he's already dead and Norman would have access to his stuff. This could hook into Warren's and Norman's relationship and provide a good reason why both the clones Norman & Warren make are so similar and convincing, why they match each other in 145 and occur so close together. Also can make a dashed line to the Clone saga. Seems odd if they both choose the same girl to fixate on independently, and Norman is the mastermind ... he may be also interested in creating kids, cloning himself or something to extend his line. This the assistant being female ties into "the one's girls life comment..." .. he didn't say "your girlfriend's life" or "Gwen's life" The whole concept of Stromm, being not only an expert in robotics, but also a genius chemist and geneticist, places him at a "Reed Richards level", I'm not comfortable with. And AFAIK, he's not dead (check his MarvelWikia page). I too find it odd that Warren would progress so quickly in his cloning research, as related by Conway, but following the idea Drew and I developed, it could be said that he already had the knowledge, buried in his mind. Working on cloning again, it could come back to him partially.
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Post by vixx on Jun 11, 2015 19:06:36 GMT
Yup...I'm lost lol I'll look for the clone thread - thought Joyce WAS the edit from the original, so one less thing for Norman to do... just posted a revised story. He says in the earlier panels that he's heading to get peter - than goes to peter's house; grabs Gwen becausue she's there and leaves the bag/bomb to lure him out. If he wanted Gwen, he'd most likely go to her house or the university first..doubt he would expect her to be there at that time... part of the impact people have taken away is the randomness. If she was anywhere else at that time, she'd be alive. Gobby grabbed her out of the sheer randomness the universe throws out - something even Spidey can't control. I tried to preserve that randomness by having the virus need a sequence to follow - he could pull hair from her head right then and there. The death part transfers to another girl - but the rest of the story, including Peter feeling bad for breaking someone's neck ... remains unchanged. This also removes the Jackal and preserves his story, and gives a plausible reason why someone else operating at the same time independently, has identical results. The alternative is he has Jackal "empty" clones for all the majors in Pete's life, and he used Gwen because that's who he had in tow.. which would look really cool when discovered and the doors open .. but you'd have to have a blind between the Jackal making a bunch of clones for Norman and connecting them to later events - especially Gwen showing up in his class, or that whole clone saga...he has to have his own kick off adventure, independent of whatever is written here...starting 6mo to 2 years after Gwen's death From a timeline perspective - it would be really hard for Norman to go someplace else and still make it in time for everything else. If she's in the warehouse, but a hidden spot, not on Harry's maps ... there are options that make it more interesting when she wakes up...she shouldn't pop out like it's 1973.. it could take a couple of hours for stasis to fully kick in, so she hears them fighting and looking for her, but unable to respond... it could be imperfect, so she flashes in and out ocassionally - hearing bits and pieces of the world outside, including people she knows....or if she is going to escape and disappear (so she can age and have a life), she only has to make it to around 135 before something breaks and she is able to climb out and escape. We saw Harry leave, and know Peter would leave shortly after. The homeless dude Norman kills could be his helper who helps him with the clones, and slated to curate the stasis chamber... but was sacrificed instead to save Norman. He'd do that in a heartbeat lol That leaves no witnesses at anypoint.
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Post by vixx on Jun 11, 2015 19:16:37 GMT
Revised:Norman has a female scientist at OsCorp. working on a project detailed in Stromm's Journal - A inert virus that rewrites a hosts "malfuctioning" cells into healthy ones. It's activated only by adding a catalyst with healthy source DNA. Through testing, it is known to work, but has a serious flaw; it fails to target a specific area, instead "overwriting someone completely" with the new DNA. After she gets the call and shows up to the warehouse to discuss a "breakthrough", Norman's injects her. It works as expected, but leaves her "blank" (her memory is over written too) and unconscious. (He could have already done this in advance, if he knows Gwen is the kidnap target, which won't introduce any form of rapid induction)Continuity notes: Stromm is the source of the tech, and dead, so no new lose ends. The female helper is a backstory and innocent, so Norman still escalates to murder in 121. The virus has been described as how Warren made his clones, this is an early version. Fingerprints match, like in 123, and 144, as Jackal and Norman use the same process. Memory issue is a defect that can be worked on later by Warren, unconscious matches the state in 121. Being a real person, she wouldn't dissolve, and would remain a corpse, even years later from 145. Later:Warren was not to be involved earlier, and mourns Gwen. Osborn (perhaps anonymously) sends him Stromm's notes and some samples later, to aid his own work in the field, but he, predictably, fails to credit Stromm. This advances Warren's work rapidly, streamlining what remains; and explains how he was able to get so far in just two years - he fixes the memory problem, but introduces minor stability issues. Norman may even influence Warren's choice of Gwen as a test subject, suspecting Warren had a thing for Gwen and that he would get overly attached by spending so much time in the lab working on her, losing her repetitively through the failed experiments. Continuity notes: Warren is the obvious choice, but has to stay out of it completely. With the new compressed timelines, he'd be going from frog to human very fast without help. So the tech has to come from someplace. Stromm is a good choice, as he's already dead and Norman would have access to his stuff. This could hook into Warren's and Norman's relationship and provide a good reason why both the clones Norman & Warren make are so similar and convincing, why they match each other in 145 and occur so close together. Also can make a dashed line to the Clone saga. Seems odd if they both choose the same girl to fixate on independently, and Norman is the mastermind ... he may be also interested in creating kids, cloning himself or something to extend his line. This the assistant being female ties into "the one's girls life comment..." .. he didn't say "your girlfriend's life" or "Gwen's life" The whole concept of Stromm, being not only an expert in robotics, but also a genius chemist and geneticist, places him at a "Reed Richards level", I'm not comfortable with. And AFAIK, he's not dead (check his MarvelWikia page). I too find it odd that Warren would progress so quickly in his cloning research, as related by Conway, but following the idea Drew and I developed, it could be said that he already had the knowledge, buried in his mind. Working on cloning again, it could come back to him partially. ok - dropping Stromm and read through a Gwen clone write up ... Btw - She died on May 21 according to the journal, and in the pictures - GC1 - Some Evil Dead Looking Thing that is sentient GC2 - Clone from 144 - looks like Gwen, talks like Gwen. The rest (if there are more) So we are focused on GC0 - which looks like her, but can't think or speak, which fits the progression. The text describes the process as "nearly instantaneous" - which is good. I think the bulk of the work happened at Oscorp in a skunkworks program. Gobs of research, money, resources but they couldn't get it right - everything was brainless or melting...they write off the project, dispurse the team and move on. Norman purges the system and keeps brilliant lab lady funded privately, believing she is close to something. She is able to get it to a good looking body that was stable - but it's blank. Norman kills her, hauls everything back to a secret location and following the recipe - makes a G0 clone. Either before hand with cells obtained from ? or after he grabbed her, with hairs from her head - depending on how fast it takes. Drop the real one, change of outfits and scoop up the "dead" one, and head out the door. fight, fight, fight Back to the lair, into some super secret dungeon, into the tub, close the top, set the timer. back up stairs, seal the secret vault, wait for spidey, die...wake up in the mourge, bribe people, Can't make a Norman clone, the equipment is being used for Gwen kill your helper, bribe more poeple, flee the country. Later down the line Jackal inherits the dead doctors research, and improves on the smarts, at the expense of the beauty and stability, fixes everything but the stability and works on that the rest of his life.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 11, 2015 21:40:07 GMT
It could be a real person transformed and unconsious or something - but a grown in a lab clone would start a riot =p What makes you think that? It has been used extensively in the MU, particularly by Warren, it's what people expect. In fact, the whole thing with the virus was partially recanted. It's not even clear if Joyce Delaney really "existed", or if it's just a name.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 11, 2015 21:46:49 GMT
Yup...I'm lost lol I'll look for the clone thread - thought Joyce WAS the edit from the original, so one less thing for Norman to do... just posted a revised story. He says in the earlier panels that he's heading to get peter - than goes to peter's house; grabs Gwen becausue she's there and leaves the bag/bomb to lure him out. If he wanted Gwen, he'd most likely go to her house or the university first..doubt he would expect her to be there at that time... part of the impact people have taken away is the randomness. If she was anywhere else at that time, she'd be alive. Gobby grabbed her out of the sheer randomness the universe throws out - something even Spidey can't control. I tried to preserve that randomness by having the virus need a sequence to follow - he could pull hair from her head right then and there. The death part transfers to another girl - but the rest of the story, including Peter feeling bad for breaking someone's neck ... remains unchanged. This also removes the Jackal and preserves his story, and gives a plausible reason why someone else operating at the same time independently, has identical results. The alternative is he has Jackal "empty" clones for all the majors in Pete's life, and he used Gwen because that's who he had in tow.. which would look really cool when discovered and the doors open .. but you'd have to have a blind between the Jackal making a bunch of clones for Norman and connecting them to later events - especially Gwen showing up in his class, or that whole clone saga...he has to have his own kick off adventure, independent of whatever is written here...starting 6mo to 2 years after Gwen's death From a timeline perspective - it would be really hard for Norman to go someplace else and still make it in time for everything else. If she's in the warehouse, but a hidden spot, not on Harry's maps ... there are options that make it more interesting when she wakes up...she shouldn't pop out like it's 1973.. it could take a couple of hours for stasis to fully kick in, so she hears them fighting and looking for her, but unable to respond... it could be imperfect, so she flashes in and out ocassionally - hearing bits and pieces of the world outside, including people she knows....or if she is going to escape and disappear (so she can age and have a life), she only has to make it to around 135 before something breaks and she is able to climb out and escape. We saw Harry leave, and know Peter would leave shortly after. The homeless dude Norman kills could be his helper who helps him with the clones, and slated to curate the stasis chamber... but was sacrificed instead to save Norman. He'd do that in a heartbeat lol That leaves no witnesses at anypoint. Damn! I had a long post on this, and the recovery system has failed! Ok, long story short: the GG wants Spidey dead, but changes his mind after seeing Gwen in the street, remembers his plan and follows her to Peter's pad. That would keep the random factor in place. Did I mention that, at first, creating a clone might have been to avoid having to kill her? At that time, the GG wasn't the bastard we've known after TNGSD, and he was a friend of her family.
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Post by vixx on Jun 11, 2015 22:07:13 GMT
It could be a real person transformed and unconsious or something - but a grown in a lab clone would start a riot =p What makes you think that? It has been used extensively in the MU, particularly by Warren, it's what people expect. In fact, the whole thing with the virus was partially recanted. It's not even clear if Joyce Delaney really "existed", or if it's just a name. I just remember the story being told and him chasing a woman around the lab with a spray can.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 11, 2015 22:11:20 GMT
Yeah, that seems to be a plot devised by the High Evolutionary, to discredit Miles. I say "seems", because even though Drew is quite certain it happened, and I've also read about it on the web, I can't find an issue reference. The only virus that can be "tracked down", is the one responsible for Carrion II.
Standard cloning, on the other hand, can be well "documented".
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Post by vixx on Jun 11, 2015 22:12:10 GMT
Yup...I'm lost lol I'll look for the clone thread - thought Joyce WAS the edit from the original, so one less thing for Norman to do... just posted a revised story. He says in the earlier panels that he's heading to get peter - than goes to peter's house; grabs Gwen becausue she's there and leaves the bag/bomb to lure him out. If he wanted Gwen, he'd most likely go to her house or the university first..doubt he would expect her to be there at that time... part of the impact people have taken away is the randomness. If she was anywhere else at that time, she'd be alive. Gobby grabbed her out of the sheer randomness the universe throws out - something even Spidey can't control. I tried to preserve that randomness by having the virus need a sequence to follow - he could pull hair from her head right then and there. The death part transfers to another girl - but the rest of the story, including Peter feeling bad for breaking someone's neck ... remains unchanged. This also removes the Jackal and preserves his story, and gives a plausible reason why someone else operating at the same time independently, has identical results. The alternative is he has Jackal "empty" clones for all the majors in Pete's life, and he used Gwen because that's who he had in tow.. which would look really cool when discovered and the doors open .. but you'd have to have a blind between the Jackal making a bunch of clones for Norman and connecting them to later events - especially Gwen showing up in his class, or that whole clone saga...he has to have his own kick off adventure, independent of whatever is written here...starting 6mo to 2 years after Gwen's death From a timeline perspective - it would be really hard for Norman to go someplace else and still make it in time for everything else. If she's in the warehouse, but a hidden spot, not on Harry's maps ... there are options that make it more interesting when she wakes up...she shouldn't pop out like it's 1973.. it could take a couple of hours for stasis to fully kick in, so she hears them fighting and looking for her, but unable to respond... it could be imperfect, so she flashes in and out ocassionally - hearing bits and pieces of the world outside, including people she knows....or if she is going to escape and disappear (so she can age and have a life), she only has to make it to around 135 before something breaks and she is able to climb out and escape. We saw Harry leave, and know Peter would leave shortly after. The homeless dude Norman kills could be his helper who helps him with the clones, and slated to curate the stasis chamber... but was sacrificed instead to save Norman. He'd do that in a heartbeat lol That leaves no witnesses at anypoint. Damn! I had a long post on this, and the recovery system has failed! Ok, long story short: the GG wants Spidey dead, but changes his mind after seeing Gwen in the street, remembers his plan and follows her to Peter's pad. That would keep the random factor in place. Did I mention that, at first, creating a clone might have been to avoid having to kill her? At that time, the GG wasn't the bastard we've known after TNGSD, and he was a friend of her family. ok - dropping Stromm and read through a Gwen clone write up ...Btw - She died on May 21 according to the journal, and in the pictures - I think this fixes a bit of what's shitty about where the cloning came from, and an innocent girl still gets killed. Can go the virus way if preferred - but I think needing shit tons of equipment is better for Jackal to build on. Jackal's known work:GC1 - Some Evil Dead Looking Thing that is sentient GC2 - Clone from 144 - looks like Gwen, talks like Gwen. The rest (if there are more) So we are focused on GC0 - which looks like her, but can't think or speak, which fits the progression. The text describes the process as "nearly instantaneous" - which is good. I think the bulk of the work happened at Oscorp in a skunkworks program. Gobs of research, money, resources but they couldn't get it right - everything was brainless and melting...they write off the project, dispurse the team and move on. Norman purges the system and keeps brilliant lab lady funded privately, at a secret location, believing she is close to something. She is able to get it to a good looking body that was stable - but it's mind is still blank. Norman kills her, secret location becomes a goblin lab with the ability to make corpses. Makes Gen0 clones of Peter's closest friends and family. (Harry, MJ, May, Gwen ...?) A while later, his son is sick, his stocks are spinning and he runs off to a lair that's shown in 121 on the lower east side at night. He leaves the next day (he's flying in daylight) looking for Peter Heads towards the apartment, sees Gwen and crashes through the window Struggle happens, they exchange words, he confirms Spidey's secret, and gasses her - she loses her belt. (purse, bomb, belt are later checked into evidence) He zooms out of there for the clone lab, spidey makes it home and discovers the kidnapping Having no idea where they are, heads out the window looking for her by sight and sense At the lair, Drop the real one, change of outfits and scoop up the "dead" one, and head out the door. - bracelt is missed Back in the air, racing towards the bridge, gets close enough so Spiderman picks them up spidey sense Spidey finds them setup on the top of the Brooklyn Bridge, ready for battle fight, fight, fight He knocks her over the edge, She falls, her neck gets broken, spidey shakes his fist, GG leaves Back to the lair, into some super secret dungeon, toss Gwen into the tub, close the top, set the timer, back up stairs, seal the secret vault, Leave for Downtown (skip this is there is a curator to do it)Arrive downtown, wait for Spiderman die unexpectedly...wake up in the mourge, Hurray for Harry! Secret Safe, bribe people, Can't make a Norman clone, the equipment is being used for Gwen or it's too far away kill your helper (or a random homeless guy), bribe more people, flee the country. Later - Jackal gets the dead doctors research, kick starts his own work but doesn't credit her. (this fixes the plot line about how a simple teacher pulls it all off in 6 months or less).Jackal refines the machinery design a ton, and fixes the problem with the clones being blank, first draft: they are smart, but ugly and unstable at death, then he fixes everything (but the stability? and works on that the rest of his life?). Jackal Dies falling off a rooftop, never knows she's still alive. This follows the known story exactly, only adding a small bit about building his work on top of the old Oscorp work without giving proper academic credit. Provides an end point for the edits.
Fast forward a couple of years: The lair is found - in the downtown warehouse, or close to it. It could turn out one of two ways: 1) Shes gone, but there is Evidence (bracelet is at bottom of tank) that she survived in stasis, but freed herself (footprints in dust) at some point and Spidey has to find her or 2) She's still there, floating. It's also possible (or not) her mind was fading in and out while her body was asleep while everything kicked in to hibernate mode - she may have over heard everhting that happened between 122 and 136, was aware of being alone in the dark (no custodian, experimental tech, hasty setup), leading to serious drama ("why did you forget about me? why didn't you look for me? being haunted by what she heard, confronting him about being Spider-Man - if she remembers)")...or she is sleeping, blissfully unaware of everything after getting grabbed at Peter's apartment. Either way, she would awaken to huge media attention (she's the famous "Bridge Victim"). I think being locked away for years is worse that not waking up after being grabbed. Being aware while you are isolated, even briefly is unfathomable and would push her development away from the single dimension version of the 70's immediately while showing the world how sadistic the goblin really is. Bonus bad ass points if she goes after Norman once she recovers. A minor event has to happen for the lab to be publicly discovered, the other clones turned to goop in their tubes - it's been tied up in probate for years, but now the block is slated for demolition, custodian dies, the power gets shut off for non-payment - but the site is still drawing a ton of power - triggering an inspection, eminent domain and Norman's flesh eating lawyers can't win... something to get people on site. Peter is there to take pics. or it's been turned off for years, backup systems are dead, place is a wreck - covered in dust... and they find the lair in a walk through (isn't this a normal thing by now?), abandoned - but find evidence someone let them self out at some point. Peter is sent for pics, reviews everything in his head on the way over, pledges to get through it... then shits a brick when he realizes it's not just another cache site. Someone leaving hastily could make finding the actual lair easier for the workers - If I'm not mistaken - this only adds information in-between the existing panels it doesn't require removing anything. No surviving witnesses.
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Post by vixx on Jun 12, 2015 5:47:39 GMT
Yup...I'm lost lol I'll look for the clone thread - thought Joyce WAS the edit from the original, so one less thing for Norman to do... just posted a revised story. He says in the earlier panels that he's heading to get peter - than goes to peter's house; grabs Gwen becausue she's there and leaves the bag/bomb to lure him out. If he wanted Gwen, he'd most likely go to her house or the university first..doubt he would expect her to be there at that time... part of the impact people have taken away is the randomness. If she was anywhere else at that time, she'd be alive. Gobby grabbed her out of the sheer randomness the universe throws out - something even Spidey can't control. I tried to preserve that randomness by having the virus need a sequence to follow - he could pull hair from her head right then and there. The death part transfers to another girl - but the rest of the story, including Peter feeling bad for breaking someone's neck ... remains unchanged. This also removes the Jackal and preserves his story, and gives a plausible reason why someone else operating at the same time independently, has identical results. The alternative is he has Jackal "empty" clones for all the majors in Pete's life, and he used Gwen because that's who he had in tow.. which would look really cool when discovered and the doors open .. but you'd have to have a blind between the Jackal making a bunch of clones for Norman and connecting them to later events - especially Gwen showing up in his class, or that whole clone saga...he has to have his own kick off adventure, independent of whatever is written here...starting 6mo to 2 years after Gwen's death From a timeline perspective - it would be really hard for Norman to go someplace else and still make it in time for everything else. If she's in the warehouse, but a hidden spot, not on Harry's maps ... there are options that make it more interesting when she wakes up...she shouldn't pop out like it's 1973.. it could take a couple of hours for stasis to fully kick in, so she hears them fighting and looking for her, but unable to respond... it could be imperfect, so she flashes in and out ocassionally - hearing bits and pieces of the world outside, including people she knows....or if she is going to escape and disappear (so she can age and have a life), she only has to make it to around 135 before something breaks and she is able to climb out and escape. We saw Harry leave, and know Peter would leave shortly after. The homeless dude Norman kills could be his helper who helps him with the clones, and slated to curate the stasis chamber... but was sacrificed instead to save Norman. He'd do that in a heartbeat lol That leaves no witnesses at anypoint. Damn! I had a long post on this, and the recovery system has failed! Ok, long story short: the GG wants Spidey dead, but changes his mind after seeing Gwen in the street, remembers his plan and follows her to Peter's pad. That would keep the random factor in place. Did I mention that, at first, creating a clone might have been to avoid having to kill her? At that time, the GG wasn't the bastard we've known after TNGSD, and he was a friend of her family. I would have liked to read that ... I like the idea that he could see her on the street and pick her that way - he came from his lab towards the apartment ... There's nothing to suggest he didn't do a lap or scout the area before swooping down. It's clear he sees Gwen through the window, and nothing starts until he's ready. Got a death date of May 21st. Can pull up a sunset/sunrisechart and match the setting sun in the art. Any thought on the year? If he's targeting whomever is home, he'd need to have clones ready to go matching whomever he's able to grab - which means he needs 4 to 6 weeks minimum, per body ( one per tube) and access to DNA. If it's just Gwen, we just need the one, with enough time to grow a clone. Not sure if access to DNA as Norman would do it, as he has amnesia - right? Do you think this should be written as 1973 goblin or later? You are right - he was much softer in the old days. I remember Osborn files - can't find a copy to read - figured that has more detail and tone... Think we are close to a timeline Need to confirm - but I believe Spidey went north in the artwork after leaving the apartment. Brooklyn bridge is south. Also number of panels don't match time spent - he's blocks away but took 3 to 4 panels to get home. 3 panels to pick up the trail at the bridge.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 12, 2015 6:12:18 GMT
What are GC0, GC1, GC2?
The year of the death? That should be 2007, according to Marvel's sliding scale, but that's a really shitty concept. The most obvious drawback, is that Marvel can never use a fixed date, for any event that took place in the past. You can cite months, days of the month, but never years.
Amnesia between GG episodes was clearly a limiting factor, when deciding how and when, could Norman have put his plan in motion. Only during his relapses, around ASM #66 and #97, was he in any condition to give instructions to his assistant, that's why he needs, at least, one.
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Post by vixx on Jun 12, 2015 6:35:14 GMT
What are GC0, GC1, GC2? The year of the death? That should be 2007, according to Marvel's sliding scale, but that's a really shitty concept. The most obvious drawback, is that Marvel can never use a fixed date, for any event that took place in the past. You can cite months, days of the month, but never years. Amnesia between GG episodes was clearly a limiting factor, when deciding how and when, could Norman have put his plan in motion. Only during his relapses, around ASM #66 and #97, was he in any condition to give instructions to his assistant, that's why he needs, at least, one. Interations of clones - I'm in software G0 - alpha G1 - beta G2 - production If this update works - all the heavy lifting necessary to complete a rudimentary clone would happen at is oscorp then move to a location that becomes a goblin lair Everything learned passes to Jackal, possibly anonymously, who builds on that base to get to the Gwen clone by issue 144. Highly more likely than Warren perfecting human cloning working alone - and the explanation given for recalling their memory (hypnosis) fits with them being "born" blank Hmm.. Ok. But that makes it highly unlikely the assistant lived, pointing back to the bum he murders... Don't think he'd let that connection to him go. He could always get a DNA sample through Sins - but would like to avoid for obvious reasons :x
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