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Post by spiderman62 on Sept 16, 2014 18:25:44 GMT
Forgive me if this has been discussed but how much do we know of Gwen's mother?
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Post by Ozymandias on Sept 16, 2014 19:04:56 GMT
AFAIR, almost nothing. I'm talking about the original material, maybe subsequent flashbacks tampered with the story. Once I get back on the Chameleonic Gwen thread, I'll tell you all two seconds of it.
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Post by spiderman62 on Sept 17, 2014 3:44:37 GMT
At least it's not just me then.
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Post by dav on Jul 7, 2015 5:53:12 GMT
Once Gwen is brought back, this would be a good topic to explore.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jul 10, 2015 5:03:21 GMT
Well, YMMV. Personally, I don't like that kind of personal drama, it reminds me of what they did with MJ. The original, hinted drama, was simply that she was dead. I'd leave it there.
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Post by spiderman62 on Jul 18, 2015 16:19:26 GMT
I'm actually with Dav on this one. I wouldn't mind them exploring more about Gwen's Mother, if/when she gets brought back to life in the comics.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jul 19, 2015 7:43:35 GMT
I bow to your superior numbers.
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Post by spiderman62 on Jul 19, 2015 14:36:49 GMT
 Well that's one way to win
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Post by dav on Oct 16, 2015 12:30:01 GMT
Having touched upon this in the "How Should Gwen Stacy Rejoin The Spider-man Family" thread, I am even more sold on the idea. This a whole aspect of her life that can give her character more depth in the modern Spidey world. As I stated, having her mother murdered would give her character a closer bond to Peter, because of Uncle Ben's death. It could be used to explain her passion for justice and admiration for bravery, not just out of her admiration for her father's ideals, but as an event that shaped her life in a significant way. Not only would it add to the foundation of her character it also adds to the foundation of her and Peter's relationship and why they are so right for each other. Both she and Peter are driven for justice because of similar tragedies in their lives. It's details like this that will make Gwen's inclusion in the Spidey family something that is more than just incidental. It can be used to show why she HAD to come back and how their relationship both in the past and present was an inevitability. In the same way as Uncle Ben's murder was part of Spider-man's origin story, the murder of Gwen's mother can be part of her back story.
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Post by vixx on Jul 4, 2016 16:06:03 GMT
Having touched upon this in the "How Should Gwen Stacy Rejoin The Spider-man Family" thread, I am even more sold on the idea. This a whole aspect of her life that can give her character more depth in the modern Spidey world. As I stated, having her mother murdered would give her character a closer bond to Peter, because of Uncle Ben's death. It could be used to explain her passion for justice and admiration for bravery, not just out of her admiration for her father's ideals, but as an event that shaped her life in a significant way. Not only would it add to the foundation of her character it also adds to the foundation of her and Peter's relationship and why they are so right for each other. Both she and Peter are driven for justice because of similar tragedies in their lives. It's details like this that will make Gwen's inclusion in the Spidey family something that is more than just incidental. It can be used to show why she HAD to come back and how their relationship both in the past and present was an inevitability. In the same way as Uncle Ben's murder was part of Spider-man's origin story, the murder of Gwen's mother can be part of her back story. If we have a blank slate to work with for this charector; she could be anything really... Ie working at Oscorp and "died" in an accident; later discovered to be alive in stasis or died much later than thought. I say this not for the eye roll it will induce - but genetic work typically involves generations and lines. If Norman is already doing protogoblin stuff on employees, it's not to far of a leap to figure the unique genetics would be "discovered" in her .. And keeping her lets Norman advance the baseline research quite a bit before Warren gets involved. Norman may have sought Warren out because his own teams hit a wall - and the research doesn't necessarily "have" to start as cloning - it could be rewriting a person to spec - something already tried at this point, and a theme through the stories. Warren leads to Gwens involvement - as kind of a refined profile. They would know she's important - removing the miraculous "1 in a trillion" nature of just stumbling onto her in a random test. That test would more be confirmation of suspicions. It also explains why the Osborns and Stacey's are close and where their money came from - settlement with Oscorp and makes it easy to keep an eye on capt Stacy. Bonus - age is a critical factor in cloning - the fact Gwen is 20 years younger and processes the same unique trait - through heredity - would be the difference between success and failure. And holding onto the mom sucessfully establishes two things 1) precedence 2) access to the source material - something absolutely necessary for success. Also - give the dads age, it's reasonable that she's older too.. Gwen may have been unplanned. Gwens disposition to science may be because of her mothers career and she really doesn't have to be a great parent...think in the vein of the mom on greys anatomy, which could explain why she's so close with her dad...even if she was very very young when the mom died. |
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Post by dav on Jul 4, 2016 17:23:17 GMT
Having touched upon this in the "How Should Gwen Stacy Rejoin The Spider-man Family" thread, I am even more sold on the idea. This a whole aspect of her life that can give her character more depth in the modern Spidey world. As I stated, having her mother murdered would give her character a closer bond to Peter, because of Uncle Ben's death. It could be used to explain her passion for justice and admiration for bravery, not just out of her admiration for her father's ideals, but as an event that shaped her life in a significant way. Not only would it add to the foundation of her character it also adds to the foundation of her and Peter's relationship and why they are so right for each other. Both she and Peter are driven for justice because of similar tragedies in their lives. It's details like this that will make Gwen's inclusion in the Spidey family something that is more than just incidental. It can be used to show why she HAD to come back and how their relationship both in the past and present was an inevitability. In the same way as Uncle Ben's murder was part of Spider-man's origin story, the murder of Gwen's mother can be part of her back story. If we have a blank slate to work with for this charector; she could be anything really... Ie working at Oscorp and "died" in an accident; later discovered to be alive in stasis or died much later than thought. I say this not for the eye roll it will induce - but genetic work typically involves generations and lines. If Norman is already doing protogoblin stuff on employees, it's not to far of a leap to figure the unique genetics would be "discovered" in her .. And keeping her lets Norman advance the baseline research quite a bit before Warren gets involved. Norman may have sought Warren out because his own teams hit a wall - and the research doesn't necessarily "have" to start as cloning - it could be rewriting a person to spec - something already tried at this point, and a theme through the stories. Warren leads to Gwens involvement - as kind of a refined profile. They would know she's important - removing the miraculous "1 in a trillion" nature of just stumbling onto her in a random test. That test would more be confirmation of suspicions. It also explains why the Osborns and Stacey's are close and where their money came from - settlement with Oscorp and makes it easy to keep an eye on capt Stacy. Bonus - age is a critical factor in cloning - the fact Gwen is 20 years younger and processes the same unique trait - through heredity - would be the difference between success and failure. And holding onto the mom sucessfully establishes two things 1) precedence 2) access to the source material - something absolutely necessary for success. I personally don't think this would be a good story idea, but it does have enough drama to entice readers. I was thinking of something more along the lines of Peter's parents. She would be dead, but there is a very intriguing story about her life and discovering she died under extraordinary circumstances that maybe her father felt it best to keep from her. Yes, she could be discovered to be alive, but that trope has already been over-used. I consider the return of Gwen to be a special circumstance regarding this trope considering how important a part of the Spidey saga that she is, that despite the powers-that-be at Marvel don't want her brought back, but they just won't leave her memory in peace, and considering how many OTHER people they have brought back, such an important character should be brought back. To bring back Gwen and have new information regarding her mother come up could lead to a very significant story line. Bringing Gwen back could just be the tip of the iceberg. There is all the time that has passed since her death and the potential stories about that time, as well as information about her earlier life that was never revealed before her death. Discovering information about her mother could open up a whole can of worms regarding Gwen and lead to a story line as significant as Sins Past but in a positive direction, or at least in a way that doesn't tarnish her image. The rest of Spidey characters have had their backstories told, but Gwen's history would be fresh material for the writers to work with. A story regarding Gwen's mother could open the door to a whole new avenue of story ideas. She could have her life revealed like an onion peel with more and more intriguing stories. Maybe she had ties to organized crime, like a cousin of the Kingpin and She and Capt. Stacy had a Romeo and Juliet romance. With Capt. Stacy in law enforcement, this kind of plot twist could be made to work. Maybe the Kingpin is the one who hid Gwen after her "death." Maybe the Kingpin made arrangements for Gwen to appear dead, but revived her and hid her away. He would have the resources to do this. Wouldn't THAT be a plot twist! Anyway, it's just an idea. It's just indicative of what impact Gwen's mother could have to Spidey's life if Gwen were brought back. It may not be that good a story without Gwen in the picture, but if she were brought back, this type of story idea could be made significant AND it wouldn't corrupt Gwen's image. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Jul 4, 2016 17:34:33 GMT
I personally don't think this would be a good story idea, but it does have enough drama to entice readers. I was thinking of something more along the lines of Peter's parents. She would be dead, but there is a very intriguing story about her life and discovering she died under extraordinary circumstances that maybe her father felt it best to keep from her. Yes, she could be discovered to be alive, but that trope has already been over-used. I think Phil was outlining something along those lines, "later discovered to be alive in stasis or died much later than thought". |
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Post by vixx on Jul 7, 2016 15:30:11 GMT
Yea - I would think she'd be dead - or very old at this point; with the focus on Osborn making the last 5 to 10 years of her life miserable. Would be easy and make a lot more sense if the groundwork for Gwens abduction started with her mom 10 to 15 years prior To her abduction.. Plus .. Bonus.. It shows (again) how ruthless Norman is on his own, and sets a reasonable timeline for the cloning project - which by this point has become as deeply embeded into spiderman as MJ, Gwen, the GG, Uncle Ben, etc.
In a perfect world - they could write a story where Norman goes after Gwen's Niece, baby, whatever... after 3 generations ... leads to the whole clone program being destroyed, then thrown into the sun,..lost forever .
Remember - this was the era where Norman got a lot of free passes because Peter thought he was a decent guy dealing with a sickness - which kind of contributed to Gwens death. I havent found a really early original story that shows - yup - Pete is sooooo wrong about him, and what's been later on tends to either happen in isolation or on the fringe; there is no - dude is a Ted Bundy psycho, he hurt people we care about and Peter was just wrong about him.
The only reason she might be alive is if there is a desire to bring Gwen back from stasis and have some family in the mix... Otherwise she'd just be an orphan whose still a few years younger / less mature than her friends (assuming she didn't escape) and dealing with a situation no one can relate to in isolation.
Works either way
If Gwen's mom was connected to Ozcorp - Liz would be the only one in the core group that would have even the remotest chance of knowing her at any level... She's pretty much the only one that knows what it's like to have an Osborn shred your life, see Norman terrorizing Harry, see Normans softer side ... Think if Gwen were to lean on get any support from the few older, remaining cast it would be Liz - whose pretty well off these days and likley would be protective of anyone that survived the Osborns.
Of coarse - the whole sins thing could be Norman's swiss cheese brain mixing up Gwen and her mom *shudder*
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Post by dav on Jul 8, 2016 1:19:31 GMT
I personally don't think this would be a good story idea, but it does have enough drama to entice readers. I was thinking of something more along the lines of Peter's parents. She would be dead, but there is a very intriguing story about her life and discovering she died under extraordinary circumstances that maybe her father felt it best to keep from her. Yes, she could be discovered to be alive, but that trope has already been over-used. I think Phil was outlining something along those lines, "later discovered to be alive in stasis or died much later than thought". If Gwen is brought back, a story of some kind about her mother would help give her an anchor in the present. Also, I'm sure there would be readers today that would be curious as to what happened to her since there was never any mention of her in Gwen's life. Lot's of potential for a great story. It could be made as complex and involved as Sins Past, but of course not drag anybody's character through the mud. |
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Post by dav on Jul 8, 2016 1:33:47 GMT
Yea - I would think she'd be dead - or very old at this point; with the focus on Osborn making the last 5 to 10 years of her life miserable. Would be easy and make a lot more sense if the groundwork for Gwens abduction started with her mom 10 to 15 years prior To her abduction.. Plus .. Bonus.. It shows (again) how ruthless Norman is on his own, and sets a reasonable timeline for the cloning project - which by this point has become as deeply embeded into spiderman as MJ, Gwen, the GG, Uncle Ben, etc. In a perfect world - they could write a story where Norman goes after Gwen's Niece, baby, whatever... after 3 generations ... leads to the whole clone program being destroyed, then thrown into the sun,..lost forever . Remember - this was the era where Norman got a lot of free passes because Peter thought he was a decent guy dealing with a sickness - which kind of contributed to Gwens death. I havent found a really early original story that shows - yup - Pete is sooooo wrong about him, and what's been later on tends to either happen in isolation or on the fringe; there is no - dude is a Ted Bundy psycho, he hurt people we care about and Peter was just wrong about him. The only reason she might be alive is if there is a desire to bring Gwen back from stasis and have some family in the mix... Otherwise she'd just be an orphan whose still a few years younger / less mature than her friends (assuming she didn't escape) and dealing with a situation no one can relate to in isolation. Works either way If Gwen's mom was connected to Ozcorp - Liz would be the only one in the core group that would have even the remotest chance of knowing her at any level... She's pretty much the only one that knows what it's like to have an Osborn shred your life, see Norman terrorizing Harry, see Normans softer side ... Think if Gwen were to lean on get any support from the few older, remaining cast it would be Liz - whose pretty well off these days and likley would be protective of anyone that survived the Osborns. Of coarse - the whole sins thing could be Norman's swiss cheese brain mixing up Gwen and her mom *shudder* I think there is still some chance of maintaining some fidelity with the original Silver Age Osborn. He could still have some decency, but the Goblin persona would creep out in a subconscious way and make Norman do the shitty things he did, but after his "death" he had some brain damage that destroyed whatever was left of the decent Norman, and now you have the Norman of today. It would be faithful to both past and present, but at the same time explain the inconsistency and leave Pete off the hook for not seeing him as a total sociopath in the past. The brain damage could also be used to explain Norman's warped memories as well as his Swiss cheese thinking. |
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Well that's one way to win 