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Post by dav on Jun 9, 2014 9:20:12 GMT
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 9, 2014 9:26:28 GMT
That's a good summary, I plan on being more detailed. Any scene, that depicts any character or relationship development, will be posted in this thread.
Edit: ok, I clicked on the "more" link, that's not a summary, but a complete recollection of every single Gwen appearance, until the blog stopped (?) some 5 years ago. Still not what I have in mind here. I like synthesis, I want to extract the essence of her character, from those defining moments among all those appearances.
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Post by dav on Jun 9, 2014 12:18:32 GMT
That's a good summary, I plan on being more detailed. Any scene, that depicts any character or relationship development, will be posted in this thread. Edit: ok, I clicked on the "more" link, that's not a summary, but a complete recollection of every single Gwen appearance, until the blog stopped (?) some 5 years ago. Still not what I have in mind here. I like synthesis, I want to extract the essence of her character, from those defining moments among all those appearances. Yeah it is different, but it also talks about Gwen's character development. I especially like the "Betty and Veronica" section!
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 9, 2014 12:26:32 GMT
I haven't arrived to the point where her character is developed, yet
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Post by dav on Jun 9, 2014 13:54:57 GMT
I haven't arrived to the point where her character is developed, yet There actually has been SOME development at the point where your at. First, she has revealed that she has insecurities, also she demonstrates an attraction to bravery, something that she senses within Peter intuitively. She is intelligent, she doesn't just fall into the standard mold for women going after the alpha male. She doesn't subscribe to the subservient role for women has no problem standing up to a man. She's actually pursuing a legitimate career rather than just being a secretary until she can bag a husband. She has a lot of the traits of modern women and has similarities to characters like Lois Lane and Carol Danvers.
If I didn't know her future a lot of what I've said can be considered speculation, but the hints of many of these traits are still present even in these early comics. A lot of these traits are also evident in Stan Lee's wife!
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 9, 2014 14:14:59 GMT
"development" From the merriam-webster dictionary 1 the act or process of growing or causing something to grow or become larger or more advanced 2 the act or process of creating something over a period of time 3 the state of being created or made more advanced: a developed tract of land; especially : one with houses built on it I took it that in the sense expressed by the first meaning of the word. The character is still being stablished where I'm at. She grows or changes later. Never had the pleasure of meeting Stan's wife
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 9, 2014 14:46:07 GMT
Romita's first issue. In the midst of the GG/SM unmasking, there's a Gwen cameo where we see Romita's effort at keeping the character visually consistent with Ditko's version. Same hairstyle, same clothes, same oval face… maybe a little bit rounder about the cheeks. What's important about this scene is Harry opening up to Peter. This is the first step towards letting him into the group. That way, we'll see more of her too.
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Post by dav on Jun 9, 2014 15:41:19 GMT
"development" From the merriam-webster dictionary 1 the act or process of growing or causing something to grow or become larger or more advanced 2 the act or process of creating something over a period of time 3 the state of being created or made more advanced: a developed tract of land; especially : one with houses built on it I took it that in the sense expressed by the first meaning of the word. The character is still being stablished where I'm at. She grows or changes later. Never had the pleasure of meeting Stan's wife I kinda looked at the second definition. Gwen Stacy is introduced but initially there are many aspects of her character that are unrevealed. Over a period of time more aspects are revealed, like pealing away an onion.
I haven't met his wife either, but I have seen documentaries about Stan and she was interviewed in them. A very vivacious woman and you could sense how she was a great influence on his career. I can't say I saw many aspects of Gwen in her but then again, it was a documentary, the person in front of the camera is rarely the same as the person away from the camera. She was no Shrinking Violet though! She definitely was a match for Stan!
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Post by dav on Jun 9, 2014 15:45:22 GMT
Romita's first issue. In the midst of the GG/SM unmasking, there's a Gwen cameo where we see Romita's effort at keeping the character visually consistent with Ditko's version. Same hairstyle, same clothes, same oval face… What's important about this scene is Harry opening up to Peter. This is the first step towards letting him into the group. A necessary step, to get Gwen to know him. In Romita's earliest work for Spidey there was definitely an effort to mimic Ditko's style. I imagine to make the transition less contrasting for the readers.
It also shows initially that Gwen was somewhat self-centered, but that will soon change...
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 10, 2014 9:54:17 GMT
The significance of ASM #41, is really nonexistent, if judged from our place in history, and yet Stan clearly felt otherwise at the time and, even thought they had broken-up in #30, he felt the need to bring Betty Brant back, and clarify their relationship status. With that cleared up, and Aunt May out of the woods, it was time for Peter to enter the dating arena. It's clear here, that the mood of the main character has changed: he buys a motorcycle, he actually makes an effort to fit in. It won't be long before we see the gang hanging out. Gwen's appearance seems to change almost from one panel to the next, by the last one she almost looks… like drawn by Romita.
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Post by dav on Jun 10, 2014 21:12:51 GMT
It's clear here, that the mood of the main character has changed: he buys a motorcycle, he actually makes an effort to fit in. It won't be long before we see the gang hanging out. Gwen's appearance seems to change almost from one panel to the next, by the last one she almost looks… like drawn by Romita. I guess Stan felt the need to put some closure to Betty. To show that Peter had definitely moved on. This way it was clear so that Stan could have Peter and Gwen get together without any baggage. Ah yes, motorcycles the penultimate symbol of male virility! Hell, I have three myself! Yes, NOW Romita is able to demonstrate his romance comic background and spread his wings! And yes he can definitely draw a beautiful woman! (Buscema was able to expand on that even more, but I'll leave that for later!)
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 10, 2014 21:22:26 GMT
Can I take a shot at editing that post, so it doesn't include your post in the quote section?
Edit: previous post edited so text belongs where it should. Images removed to avoid thread cluttering, they are immediately above, anyway.
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Post by dav on Jun 11, 2014 4:34:30 GMT
Can I take a shot at editing that post, so it doesn't include your post in the quote section? Yeah I screwed up again! I forgot to preview it before posting! Do what you have to do, buddy.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 11, 2014 8:58:01 GMT
Two things to consider about ASM #42. Even Flash notices Gwen's interest in Peter, but the guy is the biggest schmuck to ever walk earth-616. This setup will be used as a story plot, to encourage Peter into dating Mary Jane for a while. Many MJ fans say she came before Gwen, because of this brief "adventure", but even if she dated the main character earlier, it was only due to her being more forward and Gwen being "unavailable". The other aspect to notice here, is an earlier version of the headband. This clothing accessory as been a trademark of the character, just not this model, which will be short-lived. Romita keeps drawing her in different ways, as if trying to define her. It will still take him more than a year, to get to the final draft. Some will see this as a bad sign, as a the markings of a clumsy developed character, what I see is a lot of work put into her creation. While MJ was defined in one panel, both appearance and behavior, Gwen took a lot of effort. Some people prefer that which is earned, others find it more desirable to just "hit the jackpot".
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Post by dav on Jun 11, 2014 19:17:51 GMT
Two things to consider about ASM #42. Gwen decides to play the jealousy card, after failing at being nice. Even Flash notices her interest in Peter, but the guy is the biggest schmuck to ever walk the earth (616). This setup will be used as a story plot, to encourage Peter into dating Mary Jane for a while. Many MJ fans say she came before Gwen, because of this brief adventure (?), but even if she dated the main character earlier, it was only due to her being more forward and Gwen being "unavailable". Actually MJ was introduced as a mystery character back in #25. She only came out of the shadows in #36. Maybe this was an early attempt by Stan to introduce a love of Peter's life, but he changed his mind and instead used this mystery character as a foil for Gwen, since Gwen clearly needed a lesson in humility as she was originally written! You're assuming she even HAD a thought before #122! Actually, before she revealed she knew Peter's secret identity, there are several thought balloons (even before #122) that show she CLEARLY didn't know Peter's identity! Ah, the liberties the writers take! It was suggested in a later mag that she changed her hair style to match MJ's, in order to vie for Peter's attention! She didn't have the head band during the beginnings of the new hairstyle. Maybe she lost herself a little bit due to MJ, thought that Peter found the new style attractive, but at the same time she reverted back to the headband to restore her own individuality! [/quote]
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