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Post by dav on Feb 10, 2020 23:34:13 GMT
Thank you Ozy for the heads up about this mini-series, www.bleedingcool.com/2019/12/27/advance-look-at-todd-naucks-art-for-new-gwen-stacy-comic/ ,obviously, despite the denials by the MJphiles, there is still a lot of interest in Gwen!  Todd Nauck, Christos Gage and their group as well as SOME of the brass at Marvel must have seen some potential in this project, or it wouldn't have been green-lighted. Gwen's been dead for 47 years and yet between this project and Spider-Gwen and other appearances she has made in various forms over the years she is STILL popular, despite her being killed off because she was "boring!" It will be interesting to see what happens with this mini-series. If it proves popular and has high sales numbers, then maybe the bean counters and brass at Marvel will be open to new ideas for Gwen. By the way, Ozy, given that this will be a prequel to reveal more of Gwen's back story, there is a LOT of potential to simplify your 1984 Sins Past retcon concept. With the connections that are made in this prequel, there should be plenty of opportunities to show a different path around Sins Past that will satisfy your objectives. This prequel might just inspire and motivate Marvel to take a second look at bringing Gwen back to the franchise in some way and, If I had my way, allowing Gwen and Peter to have the life they should have had if not for her death. Of course this is a different time and the idea of a "happily ever after" is not realistic. Hell, it wasn't in 1973 either, but I still wonder how their relationship could have played out. Despite the MJphiles preference, IMHO Gwen was a better match for Peter than MJ. MJ had wonderful qualities, but I see Gwen as being more compatible to Peter in temperament and interests. Anyway, I've already expressed my point of view on this before. Thanks again Ozy for the heads up. I've been out of the loop on this topic for a while. It will be interesting to see where it goes. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Feb 11, 2020 6:39:19 GMT
It's been in the wings ever since Emma Stone portrayed her in the movies, I'd say. Spider-Gwen was the first wave, no it's time for the real thing.
This mini-series is still working on the same concept that we already saw more than 25 years ago, with Untold Tales, but obviously, if it sells well, it could move someplace else, as some readers pointed out, we didn't actually see her die in Clone Conspiracy, so the door is open from a story standpoint. The problem is that the only one who might make the mini works, sales-wise, is the Adam Hughes (one of the best cover artists in the industry). We'll see.
Marvel's stance on Sins Past all along has been, "don't touch that with a ten foot pole", I suspect they'll adhere to this principle.
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Post by dav on Feb 11, 2020 18:40:36 GMT
It's been in the wings ever since Emma Stone portrayed her in the movies, I'd say. Spider-Gwen was the first wave, no it's time for the real thing. This mini-series is still working on the same concept that we already saw more than 25 years ago, with Untold Tales, but obviously, if it sells well, it could move someplace else, as some readers pointed out, we didn't actually see her die in Clone Conspiracy, so the door is open from a story standpoint. The problem is that the only one who might make the mini works, sales-wise, is the Adam Hughes (one of the best cover artists in the industry). We'll see. Marvel's stance on Sins Past all along has been, "don't touch that with a ten foot pole", I suspect they'll adhere to this principle. With all the attention Gwen's gets, Marvel would be smart to follow through. Although it's probably not going to happen, or at least the way I would like it to, I can hope that maybe Marvel WILL bring her back into the franchise. As for Sins Past, they could simply not bring up the topic at all. Just bring Gwen back and let the past be forgotten and forgiven and just move on. Have Peter look past her indiscretions and have Gwen look past his. That would resolve BOTH of our issues with a Peter/ Gwen reunion and they could maybe start up again as friends at first then slowly fall in love again. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Feb 13, 2020 19:35:39 GMT
Did you get a chance to check it out?
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Post by dav on Feb 14, 2020 1:09:37 GMT
After going back and rereading the Bleeding Cool article, the thing that I really miss is Romita's artwork. He really had a way of making people look realistic, emotional and he did a good job with action scenes. Todd Nauck's artwork has a cartoonish style to it. It doesn't have that dramatic feel to it that Romita's did. I do, however like the modern coloring techniques that were used. It would be nice to see the older style artwork with the newer style of coloring in comics. I have seen it in a few comics and IMHO it looks great, but in too many cases the artwork lacks "soul" and it leaves the impact of the story lacking.
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Post by Ozymandias on Feb 14, 2020 7:16:55 GMT
So he's no Romita Sr.? That would be the understatement of the year.
I liked that they're covering stuff which could've perfectly been dealt with in the original ASM, like the thief's conviction and Peter's trying to improve his webbing. The build-up to the Crime Master and the GG's partnership is also nice, but let's see how they handle it.
I'm not entirely sure I would've included The Enforcers, whom had only been in league with the GG prior to ASM# 23 (this first issue is somewhere between #23 and #26). The Ox, in particular, poses a continuity problem, as he was occupying the body of Karl Stragg at the time.
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Post by dav on Feb 14, 2020 13:34:32 GMT
So he's no Romita Sr.? That would be the understatement of the year. I liked that they're covering stuff which could've perfectly been dealt with in the original ASM, like the thief's conviction and Peter's trying to improve his webbing. The build-up to the Crime Master and the GG's partnership is also nice, but let's see how they handle it. I'm not entirely sure I would've included The Enforcers, whom had only been in league with the GG prior to ASM# 23 (this first issue is somewhere between #23 and #26). The Ox, in particular, poses a continuity problem, as he was occupying the body of Karl Stragg at the time. Yeah, when writers go back and try and tell a back story to suit the plot of their new story, a lot of times continuity is sacrificed. I noticed that with Spider-man: Blue as well. There was a lot of jumping around that someone who had read all the back issues would catch. Also, Tim Sales artwork didn't appeal to me either. There were some panels where he caught the moment well, but others where they were quite cartoonish. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Feb 14, 2020 15:45:40 GMT
There's no consensus on whether Blue is cannon, but it's probably the most important comic for any sort of Gwen "revival" we might be experiencing in recent years. Marvels started the trend, but Blue had much more of an impact.
This mini, on the other hand, is supposed to be 100% cannon, and if they're messing up continuity is simply because they're careless. The Ox being in the comic doesn't make any difference after all, so including a superfluous and problematic element in the story is quite the boo-boo.
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Post by dav on Feb 15, 2020 5:07:04 GMT
There's no consensus on whether Blue is cannon, but it's probably the most important comic for any sort of Gwen "revival" we might be experiencing in recent years. Marvels started the trend, but Blue had much more of an impact. This mini, on the other hand, is supposed to be 100% cannon, and if they're messing up continuity is simply because they're careless. The Ox being in the comic doesn't make any difference after all, so including a superfluous and problematic element in the story is quite the boo-boo. Yep, I guess we're just gonna have to keep our fingers crossed, hope for the best and see what happens. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Mar 12, 2020 15:26:03 GMT
Issue two is out. I didn't notice any continuity problems this time around. They focus on characters that didn't appear in ASM back in the day, so no much of a chance for doing that. We have Foswell, Norman and the Crime Master, all of which where available. Other than being consistent with continuity.. not much to say on the positive side of things. In particular, I didn't like this scene or captain Stacy's portrayal. |
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Post by dav on Jul 8, 2020 2:12:31 GMT
Issue two is out. I didn't notice any continuity problems this time around. They focus on characters that didn't appear in ASM back in the day, so no much of a chance for doing that. We have Foswell, Norman and the Crime Master, all of which where available. Other than being consistent with continuity.. not much to say on the positive side of things. In particular, I didn't like this scene or captain Stacy's portrayal. You'll have to forgive my lack of computer skills. I would like to get better at using the features and settings! I checked out your [this scene] link and in that scene Gwen's facial expression, for our purposes, can be perceived as being ambiguous. She COULD be showing attraction, but she could also be showing suspicion. This is where Romita Sr. would have made it clear. His romance comic background really helped when it came to facial expressions. I agree with your assessment of Nauck's facial expressions. He doesn't do nuance well. Also Gwen kinda looks like an elf in the way he draws her. As for me buying the Gwen comic, my enthusiasm for comics is greatly diminished and I don't want to get as emotionally invested in comics as I used to be. I MIGHT get them, but then again, I might just wait until they come out in a TPB later. With respect to the issue of bringing Gwen back, I checked out your polls and threads on CBR and given the lack of interest the Spidey community has for Gwen and Peter now, I think our cause is hopeless. I have been working on a "Gwen returns" outline using supernatural means, just for... fun I guess, and I'm gonna post it on this board sometime soon. You will probably appreciate it, since it brings her back, but also retcons Sins Past, but it takes a One More Day approach. It works for our purposes and could work in the Spidey frachise, but because of the One More Day style, the Spidey community would probably hate it. Still, One More Day gave the franchise a much needed reboot, so this concept of mine MIGHT have potential! [Wishful thinking] I'll post it soon for your critique. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Jul 8, 2020 21:29:21 GMT
What I take out of the polls I conducted over there, is that despite being mainly out of circulation for 47 years, Gwen is is still the 2nd most liked romantic interest for Peter. That's quite something.
PS: you'd better save your bucks and not buy this mini, it's quite low on quality (except for the covers, as previously stated). Add to that, we don't even know for sure that it'll be finished this year!
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Post by dav on Jul 9, 2020 7:12:53 GMT
What I take out of the polls I conducted over there, is that despite being mainly out of circulation for 47 years, Gwen is is still the 2nd most liked romantic interest for Peter. That's quite something. PS: you'd better save your bucks and not buy this mini, it's quite low on quality (except for the covers, as previously stated). Add to that, we don't even know for sure that it'll be finished this year! Yep, the polls are encouraging! They keep my hope alive! As for the mini-series, thanks for the heads-up. If I do get it, I will probably just wait for the TPB. I just hope this mini-series doesn't screw around with Gwen's memory, her reputation and history too much, especially in a negative way. The poor girl has already been through too much!!  |
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Post by Ozymandias on Jul 9, 2020 9:08:42 GMT
The tone of the story seems to go the other way, which isn't in itself something I like. I'd prefer if they stuck to pre-1973 canon, or at much, did some constructive revisionism like that of Spider-Man Blue.
As for TPBs... I'd read Chuck Rozanski's newsletters about the chance of those popping out in the future (hint, it's not looking good).
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Post by dav on Jul 11, 2020 5:31:59 GMT
The tone of the story seems to go the other way, which isn't in itself something I like. I'd prefer if they stuck to pre-1973 canon, or at much, did some constructive revisionism like that of Spider-Man Blue. As for TPBs... I'd read Chuck Rozanski's newsletters about the chance of those popping out in the future (hint, it's not looking good). Yeah, it's really up in the air. If the mini has good sales, then there are a lot of possibilities: There could be a SECOND mini-series, eventually a TPB, or maybe her returning to the Marvel Universe in some capacity. It's also possible that Marvel is already planning a return for her and are using the miniseries as a way of retconning a bunch of stuff to shoehorn her into the current Marvel Universe. If Chuck Rozanski doesn't think it's likely, then probably the sales aren't that good. If that's the case, and sales are poor, and if you don't give it an endorsement, then I will probably just pass on it, unless you think that it is worthwhile, then maybe I'll consider it. Like I said, I'm striving to maintain a healthy level of detachment with regards to Gwen. I don't want to get my hopes up about her returning unless there's some tangible evidence to support it. Without that it's just wishful thinking. |
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Todd Nauck, Christos Gage and their group as well as SOME of the brass at Marvel must have seen some potential in this project, or it wouldn't have been green-lighted. Gwen's been dead for 47 years and yet between this project and Spider-Gwen and other appearances she has made in various forms over the years she is STILL popular, despite her being killed off because she was "boring!"
