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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 1, 2016 11:17:25 GMT
I was just informed about the Dead No More Spider-event. Not a fan of those, not a fan of Slott, which is why I didn't know about it. It will happen in the Fall, but we already got a teaser with Steve Rogers: Captain America #1 - Free Comic Book Day. Someone who poses as Gwen Stacy appears in the last page. Is anyone excited about this or do you share my dread?
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Post by vixx on Jun 1, 2016 14:00:24 GMT
Sigh ...
Figure they'd at least let her change her clothes... The hallmark of being a fake Gwen is those clothes ... Heh if she strolled in wearing lululemon and say a Metal t shirt, at least there's a chance... I mean it's not like they buried her in what she died in...
Not sure who or what or how - and they can call her what they want - but doubt that's "our Gwen"...
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 1, 2016 22:06:36 GMT
There's two possible scenarios, in one of them, this is the genuine article, but I'm sure it'll be abused and discarded after. In the other one, she's a counterpart, a clone or something like that. In either case, I'm not thrilled about it. The only way this could work, is for the character to somehow "survive" Slott's treatment (fat chance) and come out the other end, so a new writer who actually likes the character, has a chance to put her to good use. That's a funny observation about the clothes and fakes, but I just think the artist wasn't able to make her look like Gwen, so he went with the easy approach. In any case, so much for all of our work, right?
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Post by dav on Jun 2, 2016 6:11:36 GMT
I have very little hope that it with be the actual Gwen returning, my guess is tired trope like a surgically altered female spy. Possibly it's Slott trying to find a way of trashing the hope of Gwen returning for fans like us. From the teaser it appears that this character is going to be an antagonist for Spidey, tarnishing her memory even more. The thing that pisses me off is that they just won't let her memory fade away, they keep on reopening that old wound. Sure, it will probably sell quite well, which is something that I expected, which would give Marvel motivation to bring her back, but my guess is that they are going to bring back a version of her to temporarily give us fans hope.
I believe they used the same clothes to make it clear that it will be a version of Gwen without actually saying it overtly. I will probably end up buying the issues, just because I will be curious to see how it turns out, but I have little doubt it will be disappointing. It's so sad that Marvel can't see what's right in front of them. Bring back the real Gwen, and there will be a re-ignition in interest from older fans like us. Considering all the passion this issue evokes on the forums, it would be nice to finally resolve it, so that we and everybody else that speculates about the Gwen/Peter relationship can move on.
I mean, the very fact they used her character in this teaser tells me they know as much as we do what a gold mine her character really is!
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 2, 2016 7:12:20 GMT
The thing that pisses me off is that they just won't let her memory fade away, they keep on reopening that old wound. A thousand times this. Not only that, but they keep increasing the amount of material about a "Gwen", that isn't really the original character. I wonder at this point, if the fake characters have already gotten more exposure, than the original character. I don't know if that's their intention, but the net result of all this, will be a loss of authenticity, a downgrading of the character. The worst that can actually happen, is that she's the real deal, and there's a good chance for that. The character at her side in the last panel, also "brought back" The Rhino, which means he's doing more than mere plastic surgery. If it really is earth-616 Gwen, we're in trouble, because Slott isn't exactly a fan. I'm anticipating a rerun of the original Clone Saga, in the sense that a writer who doesn't like the character, gets to have his say about it.
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Post by dav on Jun 2, 2016 7:21:13 GMT
The thing that pisses me off is that they just won't let her memory fade away, they keep on reopening that old wound. A thousand times this. Not only that, but they keep increasing the amount of material about a "Gwen", that isn't really the original character. I wonder at this point, if the fake characters have already gotten more exposure, than the original character. I don't know if that's their intention, but the net result of all this, will be a loss of authenticity, a downgrading of the character. The worst that can actually happen, is that she's the real deal, and there's a good chance for that. The character at her side in the last panel, also "brought back" The Rhino, which means he's doing more than mere plastic surgery. If it really is earth-616 Gwen, we're in trouble, because Slott isn't exactly a fan. I'm anticipating a rerun of the original Clone Saga, in the sense that a writer who doesn't like the character, gets to have his say about it. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Slott is trying to ruin Gwen's image and memory to sabotage any chance of her return. Hopefully the editors might reel him in.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 16:07:10 GMT
Originally received via PM: In my opinion, Slott needs to leave ASM Big Time. Around 5 years ago, I asked Tom Brevoort on his Fromspring page about the idea of bringing over the Age of Apocalypse version of Gwen Stacy to Earth 616. He told me that he didn't like the idea and that Peter needed to be grounded. Yet, he allows Slott to continue producing recycled crap over and over again. To bring Gwen Stacy back from the dead is just as dumb as bringing back Norman Osborn after the ill fated clone saga. I've had enough of Dan Slott screwing around with Spider-Man. He ruins Felicia Hardy into a villain that no one like. Second, he upstages ASM Editor Nick Lowe's idea to bring Jessica Drew into Spider-Man's world by creating Silk(a direct copy of Ultimate Universe Spider-Woman, whose the female clone of UU Peter Parker). The creation of Silk took any interesting potential to have 616 Jessica Drew and Peter Parker work together, as well as developing a strong friendship between them. A good example was ASM(vol. 3) where Jessica Drew(not Silk) could have played a role in the first 6 issues of working alongside Peter Parker against the Black Cat. I've wanted to see Jessica encounter Felicia for a long time. The introduction of Jessica Drew into ASM could had made for a good marketing tool to promote her to the readers that could have helped to support her solo series, along with a few unused Spider-Man villains and allies. Marvel should have had Slott reassigned to work on Moon Knight or a Doctor Octopus solo series as he's making Peter Parker into something that he's not: A Bruce Wayne clone.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 18, 2016 17:44:10 GMT
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Post by vixx on Jun 20, 2016 20:08:34 GMT
You know - this isn't entirely bad. I'd rather have another she tay clone story than something (like Sins) that really can leave a mark... The kernel of hope in the pile of poo is to tell a bad story, they share details previously unknown (or cause conflict) that help to establish an alternative... It's happened before, and is likely because there is so few "original" material in the 80+ issues between intro and death; and they aren't always great with the details. I'm a bit fuzzy - was any other title out when she died, or just asm? Know flashbacks could share "real" details but couldn't really think of much that wasn't annecdotal. Currently transcribing my notes to excel (then sheets) - which is taking forever.
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 20, 2016 20:12:02 GMT
Yes, I've also expressed someplace else (don't remember where) that her being our Gwen has the potential of being worse. Specially considering that the writer isn't exactly a fan. I'm a bit fuzzy - was any other title out when she died, or just asm? Know flashbacks could share "real" details but couldn't really think of much that wasn't annecdotal. Currently transcribing my notes to excel (then sheets) - which is taking forever. Eleven issues of MTU, but Gwen was a no-show there.
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Post by vixx on Jun 20, 2016 20:32:32 GMT
Yes, I've also expressed someplace else (don't remember where) that her being our Gwen has the potential of being worse. Specially considering that the writer isn't exactly a fan. I'm a bit fuzzy - was any other title out when she died, or just asm? Know flashbacks could share "real" details but couldn't really think of much that wasn't annecdotal. Currently transcribing my notes to excel (then sheets) - which is taking forever. Eleven issues of MTU, but Gwen was a no-show there. Just realized that oz and I excluded sins as important flashbacks ... Such a wretched story my brain rejected its existence... Even if Marvel won't
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Post by Ozymandias on Jun 20, 2016 20:37:48 GMT
What do you mean we "excluded sins as important flashbacks"? Are you talking about the synopsis? I seem to remember it was there.
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Post by vixx on Jun 20, 2016 22:28:27 GMT
Just an off the cuff joke poking fun at myself , nothing to worry about
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Post by dav on Jul 3, 2016 7:28:50 GMT
Just read the Clone Conspicacy article. Thanks for the link, by the way. It's much of what I've said before. The Spidey franchise is very grim. That's fine having some tragedy in his life, but there also needs to be some good. Although there are readers who read Spider-man to feel better about their own lives, there are also readers who want to feel like there is hope for the world and that good things DO happen, that there is SOME justice in the world and there is reason to believe that through perseverance one can actually make some progress in life rather take one step forward and two steps back. I'm not saying that Spidey/Peter hasn't overcome a lot, but it has for the most part, been temporary, or short term. At least back in the Silver Age, until Gwen's death, he was making progress. Admittedly, I'm not a regular reader, but from what I've seen and from what I've gathered, considering everything he has gone through he deserves to have his life actually get better. From my perspective, his life has been up and down but not really any better. It's almost as if the vow that he made to Uncle Ben is not what the universe wanted for him and he has been fighting the wrong battle. If I was in Peter's place, after all the tragedy, I would have reevaluated my life, considered that maybe the universe was trying to tell me something, that being a superhero was not what I was meant to do in life, give up being Spider-man and instead pursued doing good in other ways. I guess this is a major reason why I want Gwen to come back. So that Peter has something to show for all his sacrifice, that the universe wanted him to go down this long hard road so that in the end he actually does find the happiness he deserves. That maybe they WERE too young to get married way back when. To show that Spider-man wasn't a curse, he was just a means for Peter to finally attain the life experience he needed to receive the happiness he has been denied. To become the man that Gwen knew he could be and the man she needed him to be. That now, after all this time, they can be together and it will work out. Hell, that last paragraph could be used for Gwen's return! Maybe have Uatu look down on them and recite that last paragraph!
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Post by Ozymandias on Jul 3, 2016 8:25:46 GMT
Some people see Slott's latest twist, as Peter doing exactly what you say: "doing good in other ways". As the head of a corporation, he's now bringing technology to the masses.
Another thing, would be to accept that this came to be, in a realistic way.
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